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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Yamamoto View Post
    Another thing to consider...

    Yes some rounds hit harder than others and when all things are equal we want the hardest hitting projectile we can for the environment.

    But think about how quickly you can employ the gun. From 0 to 100mph, what can you get up and running quickly and easily? By that I mean not so much speed but EASE, smoothly and without awkwardness.

    If we have time, if we have the option to choose a better weapon system (which is a weapon that requires both hands), then we'll do so. When getting up to investigate a bump in the night, you are being proactive and have time to pick up your shotgun, or 300 SBR, or whatever of the 31 flavors you prefer.

    But going from zero (say in bed asleep, or with your hands full, or just busy with the every day stuff that we do in the home), you need something that you can easily access and operate with one hand. That is usually the pistol on the belt, or on the nightstand, in a holster on the bedside, etc. Of course nothing beats a pistol on the belt, but for a bedside gun, the PDW really shines. You can pick that up and use it just like a pistol, one handed, without strain or any real effort. Yes I know that a home invasion where they get to your bedroom before you can wake up is unlikely, but it doesn't have to be that stark of a situation. There are times when you want a weapon up NOW, even if that means there's no shooting immediately. The PDW is as easy to pick up as a pistol, but still has the benefit of a two handed weapon.

    I can pick up and aim any weapon I own one handed. But some of them are frickin awkward to do so. Picking up even a small 300 Blk SBR while you're in bed...presumably with someone sleeping next to you that you don't want to elbow or sweep (remember that we have no control over what THEY do or how they move in a moment of surprise), a handier weapon is much easier to control...making you more dangerous to potential enemies while being safer towards your loved ones.

    You can always hand off the PDW to the second in command while you access something bigger if you want.
    Great point and one of the reasons I've liked the PDW. Realistically, I'd guess about any lead flying from about any platform ten feet away is going to be pretty discouraging for a bad guy.

    That said, there are pros and cons to everything and the AR pistols, Stakeouts, PDWs and baseball bats can all do things well that the others can't. So we pick our best bet and go. I just want to make sure the decisions I make are based on good data and not just stuff I think I know. WT is a great resource and I've appreciated the input from you guys.
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  2. #12
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    Oct 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by apamburn View Post
    I'm not sure I follow on the over-penetration point. It doesn't matter what I'm shooting (maybe aside from frangible or .22 or something), inside of my home it's almost guaranteed that a bullet will go right through 1/2 to 1 inch of sheetrock and be just as deadly on the other side regardless of if it's a 9mm JHP plugged with sheetrock, a tumbling 5.56, or buckshot that just ripped a baseball-sized hole in the wall.

    I've shot 5.56 straight through sheetrock walls before and it didn't seem to phase it (may have been keyhole-ing by the time it exited, don't recall. But it did go straight through).

    So if penetration through interior walls is a fact of life, might as well have rifle or shotgun ballistics in my court, right?

    Caliber might be more influential on penetration of exterior walls or objects inside the home like a fridge, desk, heavy exterior door, furniture, etc... I suppose. And that could be a double edged sword.

    Anyways, I don't have the experience / creds that others (Greg) have, so I defer to your background, experience, and judgement. Someone correct me if I'm way wrong.
    Everything the projectile strikes will bleed energy off of it. When I talk about over penetration I mean if I miss I don't want it leaving the structure with enough energy to easily kill someone outside or in a different building. Mainly when I'm talking about over penetration, is for the round not to leave the soft body of what I shot if I can help it. A through and through leaves less energy in the soft body which reduces the effectiveness of the round, if it stays in the body, all the energy of that round is transferred to the tissue.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
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  3. #13
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    Oct 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogDoc View Post
    So, if you had a 5.56 pistol stuffed with 55g and a 300BLK pistol with subsonics and a 300 pistol with supersonics and each was wearing a suppressor, which would you grab for a bump in the night?
    CZ Evo with 147gr 9mm, but of your choices I'd do the 300 with subsonics.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
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    #thinkinginviolence
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    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    CZ Evo with 147gr 9mm, but of your choices I'd do the 300 with subsonics.
    So Greg, what would you charge me to change your answer to “Why, my Glock PDW of course.
    The CZ EVO is cool but I’ve been resisting successfully all this time.
    C’mon, help a brother out. Anything under $800 will save me money. LOL
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogDoc View Post
    So Greg, what would you charge me to change your answer to “Why, my Glock PDW of course.
    The CZ EVO is cool but I’ve been resisting successfully all this time.
    C’mon, help a brother out. Anything under $800 will save me money. LOL
    Realistically the only advantages of the EVO is mass and barrel length and rail options. The mass makes the recoil nearly non-existent, the barrel gets the muzzle blast and muzzle flash further away from my face, the muzzle device reduces muzzle flash (keep in mind bumps in the night happen.... wait for it... at NIGHT). The extra mass is handy to me because it makes a barrel punch or muzzle strike more effective and the rails allow me to mount a sling. Plus I think it's just a damn cool platform.

    The PDW really is the easy button especially if you have multiple Glocks laying around.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  6. #16
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    Nov 2010
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    I’m guessing one of these days I’ll succumb....for no particular reason other than they’re very cool.
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  7. #17
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    Mar 2011
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    Western WA
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    I love SMGs. They have some advantages over the PDW as Greg addressed...but the flip side is also an advantage in terms of size and weight. The SMG can be fired one handed of course but it's still a two handed weapon. The PDW, though we tend to treat it like a rifle and use both hands, is still easily picked up and maneuvered with one hand. And I know most modern SMGs like the Evo aren't that heavy or awkward...still, there are strengths to each platform.

    In terms of shooting at room distance they'll both suffice very well. No reason not to own both other than how much $$ you're willing to put into different guns that have overlapping roles and envelopes. Overlapping niche too but I think that's where they differentiate themselves.
    Brent Yamamoto
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  8. #18
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    Dec 2005
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    Very helpful thread.

  9. #19
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    BTW, for any newbies that don't know, Gabe can hook you up with a Glock PDW.

    Here

    If you have Glocks you really ought to have one of these. Mine both have folders which makes them Uber compact and storable/portable.
    Last edited by DogDoc; 01-30-2020 at 03:22 PM.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    Everything the projectile strikes will bleed energy off of it. When I talk about over penetration I mean if I miss I don't want it leaving the structure with enough energy to easily kill someone outside or in a different building. Mainly when I'm talking about over penetration, is for the round not to leave the soft body of what I shot if I can help it. A through and through leaves less energy in the soft body which reduces the effectiveness of the round, if it stays in the body, all the energy of that round is transferred to the tissue.
    Understood. In that sense I'm following your point regarding 5.56 losing it's energy (mostly derived from velocity) faster than 300 BO (which has more inertia due to mass).

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