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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    8,140

    Default Modern sniper system- Sass

    Armyís in one form or another have been using snipers since the beginning of the use of projectile weapons. Our military as well as foreign has refined the use of them to meet modern day requirements with its sniper programs and experience on the battlefield. One of the biggest changes has been equipment to make a sniper more effective. Just think of how much more deadly Some of the big figures of the past would have been if handed a knights sass or similar sniper system. Or even a lapua magnum with good optics that they could reach people at 1500 yards and training to back it all up....

    I am looking to put together a system that can be used close range if needs be, semi auto, under Moa accuracy, can add a silencer, reliable, can be used accurately out to 800 yards. Something similar to what military is using for a designated marksman rifle or sass. Bolt guns can be used in certain roles, but I think are extremely limited just because of their rate of fire is not desirable for a more modern, more functional complete system. When I first started with the long range shooting, not very many systems where available. And really the only viable semi was a converted m-14. Yes, you can make a super match into a really bitchen setup(I had 2), but now we donít have to because there is about 10-15 manufacturers making an ar 10 type rifle that will group Moa or better for a fraction of the cost and loosing 1/3 of the weight.

    So, let me know what your ideas about about a modern sniper rifle would be for us in a guerilla environment. If you have data on what you have, as far as group sizing and bullets used, type of rifle I would like to know...
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

  2. #2
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    Sep 2009
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    I also want to add, I am focusing on 308. Big bullets are cool, I like them, even 6.5 is making a huge presents in the long range community. But for this project I’m looking at 308 to semi standardize my load out.
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    Exiled in Texas
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    7,076
    I can cover everything from CQB to 900y with a SCAR 17 topped with a 1-6x MK6. For a flexible partisan rifle, thatís hard to beat. And as a side-folder, I can fit it into a pack that is small enough to not look like a rifle.
    Virtute et Armis

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by LawDog View Post
    I can cover everything from CQB to 900y with a SCAR 17 topped with a 1-6x MK6. For a flexible partisan rifle, that’s hard to beat. And as a side-folder, I can fit it into a pack that is small enough to not look like a rifle.
    How far have you shot it too, not being a dick or anything. Have you taken it out to 900 yards, how are you doping in bullet drop? I know a Mil dot redicle won’t reach that far.
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Leesville LA
    Posts
    2,228
    I recently gave consideration to building an AR10 after a range trip where I found 75 hrain 223 lacking after 400 yards.

    You can put together an Aero Precision 18 inch AR 10 for around a grand I think that would be a good starting point.

    Optics LPVO 1-6 or 1-8 with either a stacked or 45į RDS.

    Now in regard to a "partisan rifle" I think "Fry the Brain" would be a good read.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    The gun has played a critical role in history. An invention that has been praised and denounced... Served Hero and villain alike... and carries with it moral responsibility. To understand the gun is to better understand history.

    KRG 9/11/11, PSGS 3/23/12, CPM 8/11/12, ACPM 8/18/12, M4 Sniper Week 2/20/13, TMCO 4/27/13, ATM 10/26/13, Wilderness Warrior Weekend 6/19/15, CRG-1 9/26/15, TASI 1/23/16, Wilderness Warrior Weekend 9/30/16

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    164
    I agree with C.J., "Fry the Brain" from SI is an outstanding read on Urban sniping. It is study on urban sniping since about WWII. It is a thought provoking and instructional.

    I too have a SCAR 17 and had it at Gabe's sniper course he ran a few years ago. My primary rifle went down so I had to use my SCAR 17. It only had a 1-4x on top and I was consistently hitting torso steel plates out to 800 yds, past that and I was hitting and missing at 900 and 1000 yds. I think it was more of a function of the 4x power than the gun itself. I am by no means a long range shooter, but the SCAR seems very capable and meets your needs of " used close range if needs be, semi auto, under Moa accuracy, can add a silencer, reliable, can be used accurately out to 800 yards." The SCAR does have some drawbacks such as the reciprocating charging handle, and it is hard on scopes.
    Don M.
    Scottsdale, AZ

    "Man's flight through life is sustained by the power of his knowledge"

    Austin 'Dusty' Miller, the quote on the Eagle & Fledgling statue at the U.S. Air Force Academy

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    9,954
    Quote Originally Posted by chad newton View Post
    I am looking to put together a system that can be used close range if needs be, semi auto, under Moa accuracy, can add a silencer, reliable, can be used accurately out to 800 yards. Something similar to what military is using for a designated marksman rifle or sass. Bolt guns can be used in certain roles, but I think are extremely limited just because of their rate of fire is not desirable for a more modern, more functional complete system. When I first started with the long range shooting, not very many systems where available. And really the only viable semi was a converted m-14. Yes, you can make a super match into a really bitchen setup(I had 2), but now we don’t have to because there is about 10-15 manufacturers making an ar 10 type rifle that will group Moa or better for a fraction of the cost and loosing 1/3 of the weight.
    If it were me I'd look at a 14-16" .308 AR10. I did a lot of back and forth on nearly the same question here: http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...rty-30-(30-cal-)

    I decided on a Scout Squad M1A but could have easily gone with the AR10. I went with the M1A purely because I've always wanted one and a couple of manipulation/positional shooting options that are different than an AR pattern due to the design.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
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    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    If it were me I'd look at a 14-16" .308 AR10. I did a lot of back and forth on nearly the same question here: http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...rty-30-(30-cal-)

    I decided on a Scout Squad M1A but could have easily gone with the AR10. I went with the M1A purely because I've always wanted one and a couple of manipulation/positional shooting options that are different than an AR pattern due to the design.
    I like them too, they work, and guys that say you can’t mount a scope reliably are full of shit...
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    9,954
    Now that I'm back in the .308 game I'll likely get an AR10 in some configuration or another before long.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Southeast Florida
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    1,799
    Obviously as has been said there are many AR-10 type options to choose from that would satisfy the requirements, and it seems like the SCAR has the accuracy potential combined with the benefits of the folding stock. But when you include the goal of CQB or something close to it, the concept of a bullpup has always intrigued me. If the accuracy target can be met, the idea that you can knock off around 10" from the overall length and move the balance point back significantly seems like an idea worth exploring, especially when you consider adding a suppressor. I think there are short options that help protect the shooter's hearing, but if you want good performance at the muzzle for .308 you can't avoid adding significant length.

    There are 4 options I'm aware of:

    KelTec RFB: There seem to be plenty of owners who are happy, but it's a Keltec, so it's in a category of its own. I think I've seen reports of good accuracy possible, but it's been a while so don't quote me.

    K&M M17S: This is an update of the old Bushmaster design by a small company. There aren't a lot out there, but from what I've seen the accuracy is good but there isn't a lot of aftermarket support so far. However I've seen at least one user who upgraded his barrel and he reports the company he used is ready to do it for anybody else. Personally my main complaint (on paper) is the hand guard is pretty short. But this one could have potential.

    IWI Tavor 7: Reports are they worked really hard to get it reliable and accurate, delaying release significantly, but in the end it looks like they sent it to market with 1-2 MOA accuracy, probably due in part to the barrel. I have no idea if anybody has been able to improve it yet.

    Desert Tech MDR: The first Gen release was a bit rocky, but they just put out a Gen 2 announced at SHOT last week and it appears that they have resolved a lot of the initial issues (including an option for side ejection instead of forward ejection for those who didn't like the complexity of the initial design). Reliability has been improved, they are offering more barrel options, and there are aftermarket barrel options available that have been generating good accuracy reports. I think they also reduced the price significantly, so while it's still pricey this would be my choice out of these 4 for your performance goals.
    Last edited by mike135; 01-27-2020 at 10:22 AM.

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