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  1. #1
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    Default Modern sniper system- Sass

    Armyís in one form or another have been using snipers since the beginning of the use of projectile weapons. Our military as well as foreign has refined the use of them to meet modern day requirements with its sniper programs and experience on the battlefield. One of the biggest changes has been equipment to make a sniper more effective. Just think of how much more deadly Some of the big figures of the past would have been if handed a knights sass or similar sniper system. Or even a lapua magnum with good optics that they could reach people at 1500 yards and training to back it all up....

    I am looking to put together a system that can be used close range if needs be, semi auto, under Moa accuracy, can add a silencer, reliable, can be used accurately out to 800 yards. Something similar to what military is using for a designated marksman rifle or sass. Bolt guns can be used in certain roles, but I think are extremely limited just because of their rate of fire is not desirable for a more modern, more functional complete system. When I first started with the long range shooting, not very many systems where available. And really the only viable semi was a converted m-14. Yes, you can make a super match into a really bitchen setup(I had 2), but now we donít have to because there is about 10-15 manufacturers making an ar 10 type rifle that will group Moa or better for a fraction of the cost and loosing 1/3 of the weight.

    So, let me know what your ideas about about a modern sniper rifle would be for us in a guerilla environment. If you have data on what you have, as far as group sizing and bullets used, type of rifle I would like to know...
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

  2. #2
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    I also want to add, I am focusing on 308. Big bullets are cool, I like them, even 6.5 is making a huge presents in the long range community. But for this project I’m looking at 308 to semi standardize my load out.
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

  3. #3
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    I can cover everything from CQB to 900y with a SCAR 17 topped with a 1-6x MK6. For a flexible partisan rifle, thatís hard to beat. And as a side-folder, I can fit it into a pack that is small enough to not look like a rifle.
    Virtute et Armis

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by LawDog View Post
    I can cover everything from CQB to 900y with a SCAR 17 topped with a 1-6x MK6. For a flexible partisan rifle, that’s hard to beat. And as a side-folder, I can fit it into a pack that is small enough to not look like a rifle.
    How far have you shot it too, not being a dick or anything. Have you taken it out to 900 yards, how are you doping in bullet drop? I know a Mil dot redicle won’t reach that far.
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad newton View Post
    How far have you shot it too, not being a dick or anything. Have you taken it out to 900 yards, how are you doping in bullet drop? I know a Mil dot redicle won’t reach that far.
    I have attempted shots out to 1400, but I got nothing but dirt at that range. The farthest that I got any hits at all was either 1100 or 1200--I can't recall--but it was maybe one hit per mag; nothing even close to workable. At 1000y, I could still get hits maybe 25% of the time. I can throw harassing fire at 1000, but 900 is the practical limit. The bullet goes trans-sonic somewhere between 900 and 1000. (Note on ammo: the SCAR's most accurate factory load is Hornady 155 gr Palma or OTM. And, surprisingly, Federal M80 actually shoots really well from that gun.) I'm pretty much 100% out to 600y. I'll occasionally drop a shot at 700, but it's pretty close to perfect. At 800, I estimate that I'm around 90%; and at 900, I'm near 80%. But if I critically view my own skill level, I can see that the gun is doing its job all the way out to 900. Those missed shots after 700 are my fault; not the gun's.

    Right before a guerrilla sniper class, I bought a 3-18x MK6. Fortunately (in hindsight) it did not arrive in time for me to mount it, zero it, and have any time to practice with it. So I just went with the 1-6x that was on there. I expected to suffer more than I did at distance. What I gave up was any ability to identify targets. When we switched to unknown targets at unknown distances, I couldn't even find them with the 1-6x. So I had to use a spotting scope that had lots more magnification but also some pretty grainy glass. But once I knew where the target was, I could hit anything at 6x. I mostly used the built-in BDC reticle. It very closely matched my ammo. I dialed a little bit, just to practice doing it, but I bought that optic for a reason: I wanted a set-it-and-forget-it solution to long range.

    900y is a hard limit for this gun. If you need a 1200y shot, this gun just won't do it. And for a dedicated sniper rifle, you can do much better. But for a do-everything, go-to-war gun, it's pretty amazing. At one time, I really wanted to stretch the barrel out to 18 or 20". I was convinced that a little more barrel would really improve the gun at range. But I eventually came full circle and decided that, if anything, shorter might be better. It also might ruin it, so I won't be doing anything to this gun. But I wonder about a 14.5" pin-and-weld on an AR-10. I know it would be giving up some gas, but I wonder how much. Even if it shrank the range back to 800y, it would be worth it to me if it improved its CQB characteristics.
    Virtute et Armis

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LawDog View Post
    I have attempted shots out to 1400, but I got nothing but dirt at that range. The farthest that I got any hits at all was either 1100 or 1200--I can't recall--but it was maybe one hit per mag; nothing even close to workable. At 1000y, I could still get hits maybe 25% of the time. I can throw harassing fire at 1000, but 900 is the practical limit. The bullet goes trans-sonic somewhere between 900 and 1000. (Note on ammo: the SCAR's most accurate factory load is Hornady 155 gr Palma or OTM. And, surprisingly, Federal M80 actually shoots really well from that gun.) I'm pretty much 100% out to 600y. I'll occasionally drop a shot at 700, but it's pretty close to perfect. At 800, I estimate that I'm around 90%; and at 900, I'm near 80%. But if I critically view my own skill level, I can see that the gun is doing its job all the way out to 900. Those missed shots after 700 are my fault; not the gun's.

    Right before a guerrilla sniper class, I bought a 3-18x MK6. Fortunately (in hindsight) it did not arrive in time for me to mount it, zero it, and have any time to practice with it. So I just went with the 1-6x that was on there. I expected to suffer more than I did at distance. What I gave up was any ability to identify targets. When we switched to unknown targets at unknown distances, I couldn't even find them with the 1-6x. So I had to use a spotting scope that had lots more magnification but also some pretty grainy glass. But once I knew where the target was, I could hit anything at 6x. I mostly used the built-in BDC reticle. It very closely matched my ammo. I dialed a little bit, just to practice doing it, but I bought that optic for a reason: I wanted a set-it-and-forget-it solution to long range.

    900y is a hard limit for this gun. If you need a 1200y shot, this gun just won't do it. And for a dedicated sniper rifle, you can do much better. But for a do-everything, go-to-war gun, it's pretty amazing. At one time, I really wanted to stretch the barrel out to 18 or 20". I was convinced that a little more barrel would really improve the gun at range. But I eventually came full circle and decided that, if anything, shorter might be better. It also might ruin it, so I won't be doing anything to this gun. But I wonder about a 14.5" pin-and-weld on an AR-10. I know it would be giving up some gas, but I wonder how much. Even if it shrank the range back to 800y, it would be worth it to me if it improved its CQB characteristics.
    I looked at the upgraded barrel, The factory you have is probably Crome lined. The replacement is a target barrel, that would definetly tighten the groups up. From what I can tell, the scars are pretty bitchen. They are modular as hell and there is a standard, not like the ar 10 style.
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

  7. #7
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    The 1-6x is a good all around scope, I have one just like yours. But 10x would be more idea for for precision work. I have ran bigger scopes but for a practical application where the rifle can do cqb stuff up to 600-700 yards, 1-6 seems like the easy button.
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad newton View Post
    1-6 seems like the easy button.
    If you are either super wealthy or spending someone else's money, then go ahead and step up to the CQBSS 1-8x. I've never gotten to shoot one, but looking through them is unreal. I wonder how much longer it will be before we have 1-10x optics with integrated rangefinding and automatic elevation adjustments.
    Virtute et Armis

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad newton View Post
    The 1-6x is a good all around scope, I have one just like yours. But 10x would be more idea for for precision work. I have ran bigger scopes but for a practical application where the rifle can do cqb stuff up to 600-700 yards, 1-6 seems like the easy button.
    This is where I got caught, you're drifting from your original stated objective. What I had to fight with was trying to turn a DMR/GPR into a sniper rifle. Stick with your intended Role for the platform and it will make itself more clear.
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  10. #10
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    I recently gave consideration to building an AR10 after a range trip where I found 75 hrain 223 lacking after 400 yards.

    You can put together an Aero Precision 18 inch AR 10 for around a grand I think that would be a good starting point.

    Optics LPVO 1-6 or 1-8 with either a stacked or 45į RDS.

    Now in regard to a "partisan rifle" I think "Fry the Brain" would be a good read.

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    The gun has played a critical role in history. An invention that has been praised and denounced... Served Hero and villain alike... and carries with it moral responsibility. To understand the gun is to better understand history.

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