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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    812
    My buddy has two of the Savage AR's, that was ve shit and got his dope for him. Both shoot moa at 1k with factory ammo. As far as dope with an 18" barrel, if you are getting 28moa at 1k with 168's, I gotta ask, at what ASL are you shooting? I was shooting 175/178's @ 2700fps at 300 ASL a d it took 36moa. In Utah, at 5000 ASL, it took 30 moa.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    8,089
    Sea level. And that figure was off a computer program. Mine was out of a 26” barrel, at around 30moa..
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    8,089
    And I guessed, I can’t remember without looking at my come ups in a book I kept. 28-32 Moa, I can’t remember. I used to shoot 168, 175 and I actually fooled around with 220 grain. Plus 250 and 300 in my lapua, and 300 ultra mag, plus a buddies 300 win mag.
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    8,089
    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    My buddy has two of the Savage AR's, that was ve shit and got his dope for him. Both shoot moa at 1k with factory ammo. As far as dope with an 18" barrel, if you are getting 28moa at 1k with 168's, I gotta ask, at what ASL are you shooting? I was shooting 175/178's @ 2700fps at 300 ASL a d it took 36moa. In Utah, at 5000 ASL, it took 30 moa.
    Also on the savage, I think that is a good idea. The only complaints I saw were trigger and muzzle break, to me 308 really dosnt need one in that role. If it did there is pleanty of options available for either one.
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Exiled in Texas
    Posts
    7,064
    Quote Originally Posted by chad newton View Post
    What my conclusion was after all of the fine tuning of my guns wasn’t fun anymore, was that 1 Moa out of a long range gun is good enough. If you have your shit together you can hit a man size target at 1000 yards all day long, and not have to work very hard at it.
    This point is, for our purposes, the most instructive. If you head too far down the rabbit hole of accuracy, it is counterproductive to your skill at arms. If I knew I was about to get into a long-range gunfight and I got to choose a spotter/partner, I'd rather have Sonny Puzikas than Brian Litz. Some guys are apparently enthralled by minutiae and love to spend their evenings in front of a reloading press so that they can shrink their 800m group down by another inch. But if your goals are genuinely martial in application, you will be much better off spending your evenings in the squat rack rather than at the reloading press. Factory guns and ammo today are so good that you don't need to engage in life-consuming DIY projects. A cheap Howa rifle, a good scope, and some "premium" factory ammo will give you everything you need.

    The original post points to another question, which is a common concern: how long a barrel do I need for sufficient accuracy? The answer generally seems to be, Not as long as you think. While a 13" SCAR-H is not really a sniper rifle, it will do surprisingly well if pressed into that role. Only experience with a particular gun will really teach you its limits. For benchrest competitors, the longer barrel is negligible. They just have to carry the extra weight from their trunk to the bench. For a warrior, who may trek across a city or a mountain range with his rifle, a shorter, lighter barrel is very valuable. And the range and accuracy lost by reducing a barrel from 24" to 18" is pretty slight.

    The question to ask is, What are your goals? Do you want a PRS play toy or a go-to-war rifle? Either answer is fine, but you have to have an answer.
    Virtute et Armis

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    8,089
    Quote Originally Posted by LawDog View Post
    This point is, for our purposes, the most instructive. If you head too far down the rabbit hole of accuracy, it is counterproductive to your skill at arms. If I knew I was about to get into a long-range gunfight and I got to choose a spotter/partner, I'd rather have Sonny Puzikas than Brian Litz. Some guys are apparently enthralled by minutiae and love to spend their evenings in front of a reloading press so that they can shrink their 800m group down by another inch. But if your goals are genuinely martial in application, you will be much better off spending your evenings in the squat rack rather than at the reloading press. Factory guns and ammo today are so good that you don't need to engage in life-consuming DIY projects. A cheap Howa rifle, a good scope, and some "premium" factory ammo will give you everything you need.

    The original post points to another question, which is a common concern: how long a barrel do I need for sufficient accuracy? The answer generally seems to be, Not as long as you think. While a 13" SCAR-H is not really a sniper rifle, it will do surprisingly well if pressed into that role. Only experience with a particular gun will really teach you its limits. For benchrest competitors, the longer barrel is negligible. They just have to carry the extra weight from their trunk to the bench. For a warrior, who may trek across a city or a mountain range with his rifle, a shorter, lighter barrel is very valuable. And the range and accuracy lost by reducing a barrel from 24" to 18" is pretty slight.

    The question to ask is, What are your goals? Do you want a PRS play toy or a go-to-war rifle? Either answer is fine, but you have to have an answer.
    Somewhere in between, everything I own can go to war, it’s all just about tactics and what kind of war is being waged...
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Prescott
    Posts
    742
    Quote Originally Posted by chad newton View Post
    If anyone knows the MOA drop for 7.62 x 51 out of an 18” barrel at 1000 yards let me know. I’ve been searching for a week and can’t find it anywhere. I’m guessing since with my 26” pss barrel and 168 sierras, it about 28 Moa, it’s probably around 34-36 Moa. If someone out there knows I would like to know.
    theres a lot more to factor than just barrel length going into that, you have bullet type, bullet weight, powder type and grain, barrel twist, manufacturer and action type, muzzle device (if any), its kind of an open ended question, especially considering .308 is always going to load hotter than 762 NATO

    Do NOT call me an armorer
    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
    Now I am become Death, the destroyer of all worlds
    People have asked me if I consider myself a good or bad person. The truth of it is, I don't know or care. I have been called both. I like to think I have saved more lives than I have ended. Either way, I can still sleep at night.
    SEMPER FI

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    8,089
    Quote Originally Posted by ShopMonkey View Post
    theres a lot more to factor than just barrel length going into that, you have bullet type, bullet weight, powder type and grain, barrel twist, manufacturer and action type, muzzle device (if any), its kind of an open ended question, especially considering .308 is always going to load hotter than 762 NATO
    That computer printout was close enough for the info I wanted to see. I just couldn’t find anything anywhere with Moa difference between two different barrel lengths with the same loads.
    Nothing says Fuck You like a shotgun.....

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