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  1. #1
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    Default WHY IS ONE OF THESE PERFECTLY LEGAL AND THE OTHER IS NOT?

    Have a look at these images. Do not try to use logic, reason, or even average intelligence. That would be your first mistake. The second mistake would be "boy scouting" the ATF for a letter of opinion. You have brains and first world educated minds contained therein. And I hope...we also have the skill of reading. So do some research and arrive at your conclusions. Which of these is legal, and which illegal...and why?

    ajngzvlx0rhx.jpg
    NUMBER ONE

    wZn0prI.jpg
    NUMBER TWO (WITH NFA STAMP)

    sog-68-rifle.jpg
    NUMBER THREE

    ar-556-pistol-2.jpg
    NUMBER FOUR
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #2
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    Great idea for a thread. Good homework for those that don't know the answer; I will hold any comments til others share some thoughts.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

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  3. #3
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    2,3,4 are legal

    2 with NFA stamp
    3. meets all federal legal requirements (assuming it is not fully automatic)
    4 is a pistol

    1, is actually at that point an AOW due to the vertical foregrip, if you change that to an angled foregrip and its golden again as a pistol (this also assumes that the cutouts on the brace were made by the factory and not the end user)
    Last edited by coastalcop; 08-28-2019 at 02:01 PM.
    NEVER CONFUSE GETTING LUCKY WITH GOOD TACTICS (unless you are at the bar)

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  4. #4
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    1 is a pistol with a forward grip which makes it extra scary and magically becomes and aow that needs a stamp to be legal.

    Why? Laws that go after outliers in an effort to control and restrict less common things that people won't notice or care much about. Its along game that intends to disarm everyone so they can be controlled easier.
    Geek Warlord
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  5. #5
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    If #1 exceeds 26" overall length, it would be okay to have a vertical foregrip. If it is under 26", removing the current vertical grip (or swapping for an angled one) would make it a legal pistol.
    Making the bad man go away since 1982.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchV View Post
    If #1 exceeds 26" overall length, it would be okay to have a vertical foregrip. If it is under 26", removing the current vertical grip (or swapping for an angled one) would make it a legal pistol.
    Is it OAL, or is it BARREL LENGTH that is important???
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  7. #7
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    I recently jumped on the AR pistol wagon, and the rules there are some convoluted makes-no-sense BS.

    You want a 12.5" upper with a regular stock? Gotta do the NFA/SBR shuffle. You just want to use a pistol brace? Oh OK, you're good to go. But not on a rifle lower. It has to be a pistol/other lower. Even though they're the exact same damn thing.
    "Charles, I shan't trust you aboard my ship, unless I carry you a prisoner; for I shall have you plotting with my men, knock me on the head and run away with my ship a-pirating."

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    Is it OAL, or is it BARREL LENGTH that is important???
    An SBR has a barrel under 16" or an OAL under 26". Or both.

    An AR pistol has no such barrel or size restrictions (you can put a 26" barrel on your pistol if you wanted to), however, adding a vertical foregrip to a pistol (AR or otherwise) with an OAL under ​26" makes it an AOW.
    "Charles, I shan't trust you aboard my ship, unless I carry you a prisoner; for I shall have you plotting with my men, knock me on the head and run away with my ship a-pirating."

  9. #9
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    ANY rifle must have a barrel OVER 16" and must be 26" OAL.
    ANY pistol can have any length barrel under that and OAL is irrelevant on a pistol
    IF A RIFLE (started life as a rifle) has a barrel UNDER 16", it is now an SBR
    IF you add a VFG to a PISTOL, it becomes an NFA weapon regardless of origin and must meet the 26" length.

    It when dudes ASS-U-ME they know cuz a neckbeard on ARF com posted something about adding a VFG being cool...or some oversized asshat with a snake flag shirt puts up pics of his "PISTOL" on FB with a brace and a VFG (just like the SEALS use) that we get bullshit like we have seen this last week.

    If somebody cannot read, they should not enjoy the same rights as normal people do. Harsh? No shits to give on my end...yes I am a harsh bastard.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

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  10. #10
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    If only people could figure out that if they just didn't draw attention to themselves...
    Geek Warlord
    Dungeons & Dragons & Deadlifts

    Muscle Wizard Casts: Fist


    CRG-1 DPS
    CRG-2 CRG x 2
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    HRO-5 Terrorist & Active Shooter Interdiction
    HRO-6 CQB: Fighting in Structures
    CRG-4 Force on Force
    HRO-5 Terrorist & Active Shooter Interdiction - 3 day
    TWOTU edition
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    TWOTU since May 2015

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