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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    Mid MI
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    I keep reading reports in the media that two security team members shot the bad guy. Even the Texas Governor said so. But I have watched the video multiple times and only see one in the video.
    - Ray -

    "The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it IS an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it comes to dominate our lives and interests."
    - Patrick Henry
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    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Attributed to Thomas Jefferson
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  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    1,070
    Not to speak Ill of those who saved lives, but it seems if folks were in tune with his “carriage and demeanor “ he should have been smoked as soon as the shotgun was presented.

    I cannot articulate a reason for a more proactive engagement, but I was not there. If others see something I’m missing in the video provided, please point it out.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    This mofo would have been shot in the back of the head by me or any of my staff the moment he set foot in the parking lot and we would have justified it all motherf*cking day long and twice on Sunday. Come on guys...haven't we talked about this? Please don't tell me I have been wasting my time all this time?
    How do you justify based on just wig etc. If he turned out to be an unarmed emotionally disturbed individual? That's my question. How do you differentiate.

    Quote Originally Posted by 45Smashemflat View Post
    I cannot articulate a reason for a more proactive engagement, but I was not there. If others see something I’m missing in the video provided, please point it out.
    That is where I'm at. You can put guys on him and force his hand or his retreat. But I cannot figure out how I could have shot this guy in the back one the head as soon as he got out the car. Shotgun visible. Yes. Otherwise how do you articulate a threat of death or serious bodily injury?
    Last edited by TwoBodyOneHead; 01-01-2020 at 06:03 PM.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    1,070
    Another comment. Several news sources state that this individual had approached the church for handouts. Specifically his anger at not receiving cash. Where did the gun come from? Stolen? Off books purchase? My point being, watch for a push to outlaw the gun, not how he managed to acquire it...

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    Mid MI
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45Smashemflat View Post
    My point being, watch for a push to outlaw the gun, not how he managed to acquire it...

    That thought popped in my head as soon as I saw him pull out the small shotgun.
    - Ray -

    "The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it IS an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it comes to dominate our lives and interests."
    - Patrick Henry
    __________________

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Attributed to Thomas Jefferson
    __________________

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Mid MI
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    It is my understanding that the shooter was a convicted felon. Therefore, he could not have obtained that shotgun legally.
    - Ray -

    "The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it IS an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it comes to dominate our lives and interests."
    - Patrick Henry
    __________________

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Attributed to Thomas Jefferson
    __________________

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Mid MI
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    4,615
    It is my understanding that the shooter was a convicted felon. Therefore, he could not have obtained that shotgun legally.
    - Ray -

    "The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it IS an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it comes to dominate our lives and interests."
    - Patrick Henry
    __________________

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Attributed to Thomas Jefferson
    __________________

  8. #38
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
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    45,644
    Mine in bold...as usual

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoBodyOneHead View Post
    How do you justify based on just wig etc. If he turned out to be an unarmed emotionally disturbed individual? That's my question. How do you differentiate.

    You are there being you - a killer. You wake up in the morning and put on your weapons and look at yourself in the mirror. You are a killer. A good guy with morals...but a killer nonetheless. You are not a servant, you are not a monk nor a smilie-faced estro-man...a killer. You look at life like a viking or an apache, or a Templar would. That is who you are and you don't give a fuck about anyone who might disapprove of you. And you go on with your life.

    Every person you see you evaluate. Its not paranoid it is your programming. You don't look at faces, you look at hands and waistbands and then body language and then faces. Its what you do at the coffee shop, at schol and at the market. You are a warrior not some modern domesticated and non-judgemental male. You are not waiting for a gunfight, but the tiger is your self image and the tiger is always dangerous.

    You happen to be assigned to the front door...at church. You like it there because even though you are a Christian, you are not like those inside. They make you uncomfortable and you do the same to them. You reek of testosterone and they would rather smell perfumed incense. That is fine. And then the bad guy walks toward the door. It is twenty-fucking-nineteen...yes, I said "FUCKIG" right in fucking church...OMG...no wonder I am outside. Anyway...it is 2019. The reality of a shooter showing up because he is crazy, or a jihadist, or whatever is REAL. IT happens all the damn time. So much so that Police Agencies have special teams and speciasl training to address it. THAT is your mind set...your background music...and why you are fucking there in the first place...Oh my...the "F word" again.

    You see him. He is wearing a fake wig and fake beard. Normal? No. He is wearing a large black overcoat. Its chilly as your own North Face Vest bears...bt an overcoat? Normal? No. His hands...can you see them? He is holding something. He is walking with a purpose. Does he match what the typical attendee at THIS church looks like? No. Have you seen him before at church? No. Too many god damned "Nos". Oh...there I go swearing again...so typical of the tiger mentality.

    Your pistol has now been accessed covertly. Note: If you don't know how to do that pry open the wallet and go to a class somewhere. You are seeing him as a target. Way too out of the norm and very strange for the standard paradigm at this place you are guarding. You have already killed him and you ahve already set the stage for the flow through the flowchart haven't you? Yes. Now you are just waiting for the green light. Your team, if they are worthwhile assets, would be alerted by now.

    You do not let him in the door. If he is there to seek Christ, I am sure Christ will find him. This guy will not be allowed in and if the pastor has issues with that he will have to find another man to stand in your place next Sunday. The instant that you see a weapon in his hands, you kill him in his fucking tracks. Why? Listen carefully -

    Officer...thanks for coming. My name is Jack Jones, I am assigned to security. I was standing here when I saw that man walk up. I have read gabe's book on Active Shooters as well as the FBI stats on Active Shooters posted at warriortalk.com. I have read every event that has made the national news. All these things I am sure you have done as well. I, like you, take my assignment seriously and the paradigm created by past events lead me to my preparation. I saw him walk up and he was dressed in very strange clothing, and some sort of disguise to hide his face. His coat was very bulky and as it flopped open I could see something looked like either body armor of some sort of contraption, I am not sure. Then I saw he was concealing a short weapon in his coat. At that point it became clear to me that this man was coming here to kill people in this church and that to get in, he would have to kill me first. The timing was such that I could not lock the door, nor run to alert anyone further. The only thing left to me to not only save my own life but meet my moral obligations to those inside was to shoot and kill this man and prevent him from taking another step into the building.




    That is where I'm at. You can put guys on him and force his hand or his retreat. But I cannot figure out how I could have shot this guy in the back one the head as soon as he got out the car. Shotgun visible. Yes. Otherwise how do you articulate a threat of death or serious bodily injury?
    That is all. I would have killed him before he ever got his shotgun up...so would Greg and Ted and Brent and Jon and Randy and Shawn.....
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    In a positive state of mind
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    3,778
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    Mine in bold...as usual



    That is all. I would have killed him before he ever got his shotgun up...so would Greg and Ted and Brent and Jon and Randy and Shawn.....
    An old saying: Observe, assess, confront and execute (a plan of action).

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    1,070
    Gabe, I hear you, and I do NOT disagree. My only point is that is not what we can see on camera. Was he interdicted outside? If so, and allowed to pass = bad. Once inside, given all the other visual clues ARTICULATED ( not necessarily visible on video feed) I certainly would have been busting caps at the point his shoulder rises in a drawing motion. Assuming I was there, I would have discretely proactively drawn and been waiting for the next cue.

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