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  1. #91
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,045
    Quote Originally Posted by Cacti Rat View Post
    The failure to act swiftly/decisively is the number one fail.

    The problem was solved with one shot so they didn't have a hardware problem. As you say, they had a software problem.

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,177

    Default Add bail reform to the timeline of failures

    "Another thing that has come to light from this tragedy relates to bail reform taking place in several states, most notably New York.

    Since the shooting, it’s been discovered that the gunman, 43-year-old Keith Thomas Kinnunen, now deceased after being shot by the church’s head of their volunteer security group, Jack Wilson, had previous run-ins with law enforcement in Texas, as well as other states.

    Linden, New Jersey police arrested Kinnunen in September of 2016 for unlawful possession of a firearm. Kinnunen had been riding a bicycle near a refinery while carrying a 12-gauge shotgun. He told police he was homeless, traveling on his bike from Texas and taking photos of “interesting sites.”

    Kinnunen’s trial took place in January 2017. At that time, he accepted a plea deal finding him guilty of criminal trespass, with no mention of a firearm. The misdemeanor was punished with time served at Union County Jail, totaling about 90 days.

    The Superior Court Judge also ordered him to forfeit his weapon.

    For reference, the December church shooting was carried out using a 12-gauge shotgun.

    Following the shooting, Union County Prosecutor’s Office spokesman said, “the plea deal was “fully reasonable and legally appropriate.”
    In a written statement, the spokesman said:

    “The assistant prosecutor assigned to this case consulted with a member of the Union County Police Department Ballistics Unit, who determined that because the recovered weapon was missing a fundamental component, it was inoperable under the definition outlined in the applicable statute.”

    Kinnunen was found to be mentally unfit to stand trial in a 2012 case out of Oklahoma. The case involved a 2011 incident where he attacked the owner of a donut shop, breaking his nose. Kinnunen was charged with felony assault and battery with a dangerous weapon.

    Kinnunen’s lengthy criminal history record also shows several arrests for theft and warrants for unpaid traffic tickets and aside from the states mentioned, also include charges in Nevada, Arizona, and California.

    Also in Oklahoma, Kinnunen was charged with arson when he attempted to start a fire in a cotton field using “flaming tampons.”

    After being found mentally incompetent for that trial, he was committed to a psychiatric facility. Clearly, it wasn’t a long-term commitment.

    Much like his marriages, which were marred with drugs and abuse.

    Kinnunen’s ex-wife, Angela Holloway, told reporters that in 2011 he had gotten increasingly involved with drugs. She said the drugs “messed with his head.”

    Another ex-wife, Cindy Glasgow-Voegel, filed for a protective order in 2012 in Grady County, Oklahoma, claiming that he was “a violent, paranoid person, with a long line of assault and battery with and without firearms.”

    Cindy said their 15-year-old son was “terrified” of Kinnunen and that he threatened her, warning her to not keep their son from him.

    In the protective order, Cindy said her son recorded Kinnunen setting several fires while visiting him, but didn’t saying anything out of fear of retaliation.

    An arrest warrant affidavit in December 2011 included a statement from his son, which said Kinnunen “set a cotton field on fire using lamp oil, tampons and a lighter.”

    The teenager also said Kinnunen liked to play “fire football, where he soaked a football in a flammable liquid, lit the ball on fire and then toss it back and forth.” Kinnunen’s son thought “the game” was unsafe, but he didn’t stop playing because he was “afraid he might get mad at me if I asked to stop.”

    In that case, Kinnunen was again punished with time served, amounting to 303 days in jail.

    Another charge of aggravated assault (with a firearm) was downgraded to misdemeanor deadly conduct in Texas in 2008..."


    https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/...ut-gun-felony/

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,497
    Just picking some low hanging fruit, but would they have been nearly so accommodating in Union County had Kinnunen been in possession of, say, a bare AR lower, with or without Crusader bits?
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    290. And a wakeup.

  4. #94
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    45,393
    Flaming tampons!? I thought they were only good for wound care in addition to their obvious purpose?

    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  5. #95
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    45,393
    In all seriousness...making bail more difficult would be fine if the books were not glutted with so many useless laws and bullshit regulations. Bail modifications for violent crime and potentially violent crime has always been available and used...however, when the jails are to capacity for ridiculous "financially-driven" breaches or the rules, you get stuff like this where the prosecutors and judges take the easy path. If everyone that was in violation of something was arrested and denied bail, tere would be more people inside than outside.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Suburb of Des Moines, IA
    Posts
    1,093
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    In all seriousness...making bail more difficult would be fine if the books were not glutted with so many useless laws and bullshit regulations. Bail modifications for violent crime and potentially violent crime has always been available and used...however, when the jails are to capacity for ridiculous "financially-driven" breaches or the rules, you get stuff like this where the prosecutors and judges take the easy path. If everyone that was in violation of something was arrested and denied bail, tere would be more people inside than outside.
    Exactly. A couple weeks ago I apprehended a guy in his 70s who skipped on a $25,000 bond for owning an unlicensed construction company. I'm currently looking for a guy who skipped on a $3,000 bond for grand theft firearm. Instead of basing it on the severity of the crime or how much of a danger the defendant is to society, it's usually just the whims of the judge.
    Last edited by Eric Tull; 01-27-2020 at 07:08 PM.
    Suarez International Staff Instructor, Iowa

    "EVERY MAN IS A COUNTER TERRORIST." --Gabe Suarez
    "It's not the will to win that matters--everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters." --Paul "Bear" Bryant
    "Love of theory is the root of all evil." --William M. Briggs

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