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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,649
    I am my church's security team. They just don't know it.

    No sense scaring the horses.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    180. And a wakeup.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    325
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    I am my church's security team. They just don't know it.

    No sense scaring the horses.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    "The fundamental demand of warfare is killing.You kill your enemies until they surrender or until they're all dead".-Lt.Col Ralph Peters

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,199
    I was speaking with an ex chief of police of my city yesterday about this event. His position is that the fight started considerably earlier than the average onlooker would perceive. All of the factors mentioned indicate that a violent threat has been presented and an attack is imminent, thus the justification for some sort of action (to disrupt the perpetrator's plan) ideally comes much earlier than the moment when the muzzle starts rising into the chest of the first victim.

    Anomalous behavior observed in a tribal unit such as a church creates a "Left of Bang" opportunity to consider: Future such attacks might involve more sophisticated tactics, such as multiple attackers, blocking egress, chemical distractions, suicide vests, etc.

    Here, observing the discomfort of other animals at the waterhole might be yet another indication that a predator had targeted the flock.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    8,013
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Vet View Post



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    There are five of us, now all ex-cops as the last active guy officially retired. We cover 3 Masses. When the Padre says lets us bow our heads in prayer we are heads up on a swivel. The best way to defend anything is to formulate a plan of attacking. We have specific distances memorized and 3 of us train head shots as mag dumps are not in the picture.

    My health is a shit sandwich and if God answers my final prayer, I will go out protecting the sheep.

    I pray that I am not called upon, but if I am --Lord make me fast and accurate.

    Choirboy

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,649
    Quote Originally Posted by choirboy View Post
    There are five of us, now all ex-cops as the last active guy officially retired. We cover 3 Masses. When the Padre says lets us bow our heads in prayer we are heads up on a swivel. The best way to defend anything is to formulate a plan of attacking. We have specific distances memorized and 3 of us train head shots as mag dumps are not in the picture.

    My health is a shit sandwich and if God answers my final prayer, I will go out protecting the sheep.

    I pray that I am not called upon, but if I am --Lord make me fast and accurate.

    Choirboy
    Amen, brother.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    180. And a wakeup.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by alistar View Post
    His position is that the fight started considerably earlier than the average onlooker would perceive. All of the factors mentioned indicate that a violent threat has been presented and an attack is imminent, thus the justification for some sort of action (to disrupt the perpetrator's plan) ideally comes much earlier than the moment when the muzzle starts rising into the chest of the first victim.
    Had he been smoked before taking out at least one innocent there would be questions of if shooting was necessary. As Jim Cirillo said, wait until a few innocents drop and then nobody will second guess you.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    325
    Quote Originally Posted by TwoBodyOneHead View Post
    Had he been smoked before taking out at least one innocent there would be questions of if shooting was necessary. As Jim Cirillo said, wait until a few innocents drop and then nobody will second guess you.
    Sadly, yes. Gabe has mentioned this,as well.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    "The fundamental demand of warfare is killing.You kill your enemies until they surrender or until they're all dead".-Lt.Col Ralph Peters

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    45,784
    Quote Originally Posted by TwoBodyOneHead View Post
    Had he been smoked before taking out at least one innocent there would be questions of if shooting was necessary. As Jim Cirillo said, wait until a few innocents drop and then nobody will second guess you.

    No...no...no!

    We have talked about this until my uvula is dripping down my chin.



    This mofo would have been shot in the back of the head by me or any of my staff the moment he set foot in the parking lot and we would have justified it all motherf*cking day long and twice on Sunday. Come on guys...haven't we talked about this? Please don't tell me I have been wasting my time all this time?
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,199
    Quote Originally Posted by TwoBodyOneHead View Post
    Had he been smoked before taking out at least one innocent there would be questions of if shooting was necessary. As Jim Cirillo said, wait until a few innocents drop and then nobody will second guess you.
    With the indications present, a clear articulation of the reasons why deadly force was justified would not be so difficult if it got to that.

    "Hey man, how are you doing?" with an educated feel of the area where body language indicates the shotgun is, would be enough to take him down and neutralize him violently.

    Here, going to guns was reactive. Action beats reaction.
    Last edited by alistar; 01-01-2020 at 01:11 PM.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,649
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    No...no...no!

    We have talked about this until my uvula is dripping down my chin.



    This mofo would have been shot in the back of the head by me or any of my staff the moment he set foot in the parking lot and we would have justified it all motherf*cking day long and twice on Sunday. Come on guys...haven't we talked about this? Please don't tell me I have been wasting my time all this time?
    wolfstalk.jpg
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    180. And a wakeup.

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