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  1. #31
    Any intel on the POS shooter yet?

    The good guy turns out to own a shooting training company.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Phoenix, Arizona
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    9,954
    Quote Originally Posted by John W in SC View Post
    I've watched the video several times with sound on, and several times at half speed. I'm curious about three things that may or may not be significant. I'd like to know what others think.

    The first thing I noticed watching at normal speed with the sound on was that all three gunshots sounded the same. If the BG fired a shotgun twice and the GG fired a handgun once, should the shots have sounded different?
    No, it's likely that the DBL level exceeded the capabilities of the video's microphone.

    The next thing I noticed at half speed was that the handgun the GG is supposed to have fired didn't seem to show any recoil or muzzle rise. Did he actually fire? but you see the muzzle flash, probably happened at a higher frame rate than the camera had.

    The third thing I noticed, again at half speed, is that when the BG was supposedly hit he was facing the wall, and there was a flash of light between him and the wall. Could this have been a muzzle flash from his own shotgun if he shot himself? If not, where did the flash come from? I saw that too, I'm guessing that he discharged the shotgun at the pistol round emptied his brain housing group, especially if his finger was on the trigger (which it likely was as he was in the process of shooting). In the video he didn't have time to make it through his OODA to make the decision to shoot himself, and if you've never seen someone suck start a shotgun, that wall and ceiling wouldn't be that clean.

    Yes, I'm guessing. Any thoughts?

    John W in SC
    Not sure why some default to thinking an event is fake vs. what can be learned from the tactics. What possible motive would there be to fake this video?
    Last edited by Greg Nichols; 12-30-2019 at 07:28 AM.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
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    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    Not sure why some default to thinking an event is fake vs. what can be learned from the tactics. What possible motive would there be to fake this video?
    Because that is what the wonderful gun community is programmed to do. Some even question that the earth is in fact round, that there were dinosaurs, and stuff like that. Wasn't there a group that believed the 911 thing was made up and that the sandy Hook shooting was also made up?
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    1,438
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    Not sure why some default to thinking an event is fake vs. what can be learned from the tactics. What possible motive would there be to fake this video?
    I'm not suggesting it is faked, but only that it may not support the current news reports of what actually happened. Our lamestream media thinks its more important to be first than it is to be right.

    John W in SC

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    546
    Thoughts:

    1. The shot that ended the fight was a 15 yard head shot. Not difficult...for someone who practices making the precise shot. Most people put up a target at 7 yards or so and blaze away at it. I've heard instructors tell students "the fights are all at 3-7 yards". Fortunately, the GG in this incident wasn't buying that line. Master the long line, and the shorter ranges are pathetically easy to shoot.

    2. Drawing from any belt holster while seated is hard. The gun gamers may have banned shoulder holsters for legitimate safety reasons, but that doesn't mean they don't have a place on the street...or anywhere you expect to do a lot of sitting. And there's a market for a strong-side shoulder rig - set up like a belt holster at 3 o'clock, but riding on a shoulder harness instead of the belt. And therefore accessible while seated...and much easier for bigger-chested shooters to use.

  6. #36
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    Oct 2010
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    Phoenix, Arizona
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike OTDP View Post
    Thoughts:


    2. Drawing from any belt holster while seated is hard. The gun gamers may have banned shoulder holsters for legitimate safety reasons, but that doesn't mean they don't have a place on the street...or anywhere you expect to do a lot of sitting. And there's a market for a strong-side shoulder rig - set up like a belt holster at 3 o'clock, but riding on a shoulder harness instead of the belt. And therefore accessible while seated...and much easier for bigger-chested shooters to use.
    I can honestly go both ways on this one. 1) I can see that the use of a shoulder rig has it's uses, especially when wearing a suit or riding a motorcycle. 2) The caveat to this is practice, AIWB is very doable from a seated position if you take the time to practice. After the movie theater and restaurant shootings from a few years ago I began incorporating shooting and moving, from a seated position, in both a theater style seating as well as around a table. I also began doing it live and reinforcing it with FOF.
    Working from seated with a strong side carry is terrible, you have to move far too much to make a surreptitious draw, and you have to ensure that you clear the seat and anyone seated around you no matter what method you use.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
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    #thinkinginviolence
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    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  7. #37
    White shirt, balding, foreground. Pushes his companion down, gets partial concealment himself, but keeps his own head up.
    Doesn't appear to be armed.
    But he is the only one I see checking behind with intent. Looks the first time as the 3rd shot is fired. Looks twice more on the way up the aisle.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    546
    It occurs to me that the biggest headache with appendix carry is where the belt is placed on the body. People focus on body shape, but even the roundest person can make it work if the holster is at the navel line. But very few people wear their pants that high on the body any longer.

    This is essentially the argument I make for a strong-side shoulder rig...which might well be vest-mounted instead of on a harness. Come to think of it, I recollect Wild Bill Hickok having something along those lines. It wasn't what we would think of as a shoulder holster, it was a vest that carried the guns further forward.
    Last edited by Mike OTDP; 12-30-2019 at 09:07 AM.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Mid MI
    Posts
    4,615
    Jack Wilson, Texas Church Shooting Hero: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
    https://heavy.com/news/2019/12/jack-wilson/

    Jack Wilson, the security volunteer who quickly shot the Texas church shooter at West Freeway Church of Christ, stopping him and likely saving many lives, is a former reserve deputy sheriff who was the long-time owner of a firearms training academy.

    He indicated in the comment thread that he used the following firearm: “SIG P229-357 SIG.”
    - Ray -

    "The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it IS an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it comes to dominate our lives and interests."
    - Patrick Henry
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  10. #40
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    1,178
    John,
    I saw the flash at the perp too, and initially thought
    he had shot himself, but the liveleak vid has a better
    resolution and I then realized he turned & fired a
    round toward the pulpit at the same instant he
    was hit by the church member to the extreme left.
    Watching at half speed you can see his handgun
    recoil, but seems to somewhat obscured by the
    video's frame rate.


    Quote Originally Posted by John W in SC View Post
    I've watched the video several times with sound on, and several times at half speed. I'm curious about three things that may or may not be significant. I'd like to know what others think.

    The first thing I noticed watching at normal speed with the sound on was that all three gunshots sounded the same. If the BG fired a shotgun twice and the GG fired a handgun once, should the shots have sounded different?

    The next thing I noticed at half speed was that the handgun the GG is supposed to have fired didn't seem to show any recoil or muzzle rise. Did he actually fire?

    The third thing I noticed, again at half speed, is that when the BG was supposedly hit he was facing the wall, and there was a flash of light between him and the wall. Could this have been a muzzle flash from his own shotgun if he shot himself? If not, where did the flash come from?

    Yes, I'm guessing. Any thoughts?

    John W in SC
    "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" Alan Temby
    "Give a man a mask and he will tell you the truth"- Oscar Wilde.

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