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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Leesville LA
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    2,228
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagantguy View Post
    One shot takes bad guy out of fight- great- but no one bothers to look for more bad guys
    That was my first thought I would have been yelling at them to guard the exits



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    The gun has played a critical role in history. An invention that has been praised and denounced... Served Hero and villain alike... and carries with it moral responsibility. To understand the gun is to better understand history.

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  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,384
    I believe it is my duty to protect the innocent, care for the weak, and leave the lazy to their own pathetic demise.

    “Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.” —Aldous Huxley

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Dayton Ohio
    Posts
    526
    TEXAS SHOOTING TODAY.
    It is a very informative video.
    If you have not seen it the video is here:
    https://www.star-telegram.com/latest...238813193.html
    The following critique is based on the images in the video and are meant as a learning experience.
    The team member that was shot, stood up and then did a very obvious slow draw to confront the attacker.
    Notice that a usher seems to answer a question and pointed to someone in the seats.
    At this point, the attacker draws a short barrel shotgun with a pistol grip from under his coat and shoots the team member who was fumbling his draw.

    The security team member drops to the ground, the next shot is at the usher. The attacker then move to his left starting to move towards the stage. Another team member takes a shot at the attacker from about 15 to 18 yards. Hard to tell but it also looks like the attacker fired a 3rd round, noted by the muzzle flash. This happened as the rear team member took his shot. The pastor is seen dropping to the floor as the attacker starts moving his direction.
    Time sequence:
    Usher points to the seats at 6 seconds
    Attacker draws the shotgun at 8 seconds
    Attacker shoots first person drawing a weapon from small of back at 11 seconds
    Attacker shoots second person at 12 seconds
    Team member shoots the attacker at 13 seconds
    Team member used both hands for the shot.
    This team member then moves forward with good weapons control

    Items to note:
    The action is 7 to 8 seconds from draw to attacker shot and stopped.
    Small of the back carry is too obvious
    First team member telegraphed his draw to the attacker and tripped the action point.
    Team member should have drawn before standing if possible. Covert draw.
    Second team member took a distance shot, only one it appears, from 15 to 18 yards
    Attacker fired the shotgun three times in three seconds.
    The second team members accuracy stopped the attacker before he emptied the shotgun at others.

    Much to be learned here.
    My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
    - Thomas Jefferson

  4. #24
    So much to learn from this video. The first team member trying a stationary draw from small of back with shotgun already out through to the 2nd wave of CCWers arriving and sweeping the church.

    The dude who drew and dropped this POS did an excellent job.

    The minister eat carpet the bear crawled out of there.

    It's interesting to watch it over and follow each person.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Suburb of Des Moines, IA
    Posts
    1,098
    A lot of really good points. One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet are the pre-attack indicators. For example, notice how the bad guy was walking as he left the pew.
    Suarez International Staff Instructor, Iowa

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  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,460
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Tull View Post
    A lot of really good points. One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet are the pre-attack indicators. For example, notice how the bad guy was walking as he left the pew.
    Indeed. And the good guy shooter noticed him the whole time but still lagged behind once things started.
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  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    1,601
    Every time I watch this I keep wondering where the anchor shots are as he approaches the downed bad guy.
    I carry two kinds of trauma kits. One for fixing it and one for causing it.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    45,438
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ1 View Post
    Much to be learned here.
    In truth, not by us. We have been discussing and teaching what would end such events quickly and artfully now for over twenty years.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,438
    I've watched the video several times with sound on, and several times at half speed. I'm curious about three things that may or may not be significant. I'd like to know what others think.

    The first thing I noticed watching at normal speed with the sound on was that all three gunshots sounded the same. If the BG fired a shotgun twice and the GG fired a handgun once, should the shots have sounded different?

    The next thing I noticed at half speed was that the handgun the GG is supposed to have fired didn't seem to show any recoil or muzzle rise. Did he actually fire?

    The third thing I noticed, again at half speed, is that when the BG was supposedly hit he was facing the wall, and there was a flash of light between him and the wall. Could this have been a muzzle flash from his own shotgun if he shot himself? If not, where did the flash come from?

    Yes, I'm guessing. Any thoughts?

    John W in SC

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,460
    Quote Originally Posted by John W in SC View Post
    I've watched the video several times with sound on, and several times at half speed. I'm curious about three things that may or may not be significant. I'd like to know what others think.

    The first thing I noticed watching at normal speed with the sound on was that all three gunshots sounded the same. If the BG fired a shotgun twice and the GG fired a handgun once, should the shots have sounded different?

    The next thing I noticed at half speed was that the handgun the GG is supposed to have fired didn't seem to show any recoil or muzzle rise. Did he actually fire?

    The third thing I noticed, again at half speed, is that when the BG was supposedly hit he was facing the wall, and there was a flash of light between him and the wall. Could this have been a muzzle flash from his own shotgun if he shot himself? If not, where did the flash come from?

    Yes, I'm guessing. Any thoughts?

    John W in SC
    A lot of it is likely limitations of the camera being used.
    Geek Warlord
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