Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    8,499

    Default 21 feet + follow through + shoot the face + grappling + verbal articulation

    This video has a lot of the reasons why we train:

    https://www.full30.com/watch/MDIxMjI...at-has-stopped


    I have never been a LEO, but even with ridiculous rules of engagement, I think this LEO didn’t believe it was possible the bad guy would actually attack with the knife. Even after the first round of shots (which took forever) it doesn’t seem like he was ready (normalcy boas?). The bad guy gets back up and just about ended it for the first cop— taking his back knife in hand.
    LIVING > FIRED > JAIL > DEAD

    DISCIPLINA EST LIBERTATEM
    KRG, HRO: Team Tactics 1/2, CRG, HRO: CQB/Team Tactics, Defensive Knife, TMCO


    T
    WOTU Since 2012


  2. #2
    What you see is a guardian response and the problems therein.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    15,217
    WOW. At first I thought it was suicide by cop, but apparently the knife man did intend to hurt the officers. In the end he does lay hands on one of the officers that appears to have holstered his pistol and there earlier was mention non or less lethal to be used. Probably I would need to review that video a couple times to get everything.
    As a civilian I would prefer a shotgun against a charging knife man.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,391
    I remember there being a thread on this a handful of months back.
    Geek Warlord
    Dungeons & Dragons & Deadlifts

    Muscle Wizard Casts: Fist


    CRG-1 DPS
    CRG-2 CRG x 2
    SGF-1 Shotgun Gunfighting
    Trauma care under fire
    Spetsnaz Sniper
    HRO-5 Terrorist & Active Shooter Interdiction
    HRO-6 CQB: Fighting in Structures
    CRG-4 Force on Force
    HRO-5 Terrorist & Active Shooter Interdiction - 3 day
    TWOTU edition
    Trauma Medicine for the CCW Operator
    Pistol Ground Fighting (Taint Shooting Progressions)

    TWOTU since May 2015

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    66
    Nearly 4 minutes of being advanced on by crazy guy with knife; seems like they let him control
    the tempo and terrain to long. Very glad they ended it with only the looney guy getting killed.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    45,216
    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanNobody View Post
    What you see is a guardian response and the problems therein.

    Agreed...a guardian sheepdog.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  7. #7
    I don't know if this is of any help, but I think the guardian might have been caught up in the liability loop we're indoctrinating the young officers with. I see if often on the street when the guys are worried about internal complaints, external complaints, public opinion, and adherence to policy and procedures, some of which are only guidelines. For those who may find themselves in similar circumstances perhaps these words may give some guidance:

    1. As a law enforcement officer you're called to the scene by a complainant or on-view the issue. Your legal standing is without question and solidified in statute. You have no duty to retreat, and in fact have a duty to solve the tactical problem as fast as possible based on timing, proximity and potential for collateral damage to the public.
    2. Yes, de-escalation is part of the modern officer's mindset, but exigency is the offset and it is fine to consider de-escalation and dismiss it for a variety of reasons... such as timing, proximity and potential for collateral damage to the public.
    3. We don't let our suspects, especially armed ones who can cause injury or death to collaterals, go mobile. Going from static to mobile increases negative outcomes and increases liability from potential collateral damage.

    I completely see why a guardian, trained in modern policing, would take actions similar to the one in the video; however, experience and the viewpoint of a commander makes me want that guardian to keep the threat static and end it as fast as possible to prevent the issues we've discussed.

    De-escalation does need to be considered by modern law enforcement officers, but I would respectfully suggest it can be considered and dismissed based on timing, proximity and potential for collateral damage to the public. We have no duty to give ground and in fact, by doing so, we may prolong the hostilities. Sometimes decisiveness of action and speed are in fact themselves the most responsible move.

    For what it's worth.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,448
    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanNobody View Post
    I don't know if this is of any help, but I think the guardian might have been caught up in the liability loop we're indoctrinating the young officers with. I see it often on the street when the guys are worried about internal complaints, external complaints, public opinion, and adherence to policy and procedures, some of which are only guidelines. For those who may find themselves in similar circumstances perhaps these words may give some guidance:

    1. As a law enforcement officer you're called to the scene by a complainant or on-view the issue. Your legal standing is without question and solidified in statute. You have no duty to retreat, and in fact have a duty to solve the tactical problem as fast as possible based on timing, proximity and potential for collateral damage to the public.
    2. Yes, de-escalation is part of the modern officer's mindset, but exigency is the offset and it is fine to consider de-escalation and dismiss it for a variety of reasons... such as timing, proximity and potential for collateral damage to the public.
    3. We don't let our suspects, especially armed ones who can cause injury or death to collaterals, go mobile. Going from static to mobile increases negative outcomes and increases liability from potential collateral damage.

    I completely see why a guardian, trained in modern policing, would take actions similar to the one in the video; however, experience and the viewpoint of a commander makes me want that guardian to keep the threat static and end it as fast as possible to prevent the issues we've discussed.

    De-escalation does need to be considered by modern law enforcement officers, but I would respectfully suggest it can be considered and dismissed based on timing, proximity and potential for collateral damage to the public.

    We have no duty to give ground and in fact, by doing so, we may prolong the hostilities. Sometimes decisiveness of action and speed are in fact themselves the most responsible move.

    For what it's worth.
    Worth its weight in gold.

    Emphasis added for my own benefit.

    Adding this as well: the guardian mindset is so pervasive that when you do act with justified violence you will be betrayed by those onscene unable or unwilling to act and by those virtue-signalling "experts" who were not there but willing to punish you for taking action.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    317. And a wakeup.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    156
    Telling him to drop the knife ONCE was all the de-escalation that should have happened.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    1,618
    For those who have learned to move in our classes, this is a prolonged example of “Don’t walk backwards. You can’t back up faster than the threat runs forward and you may fall down while doing it” Then there’s that part about knives/sticks and 7yds/22ft...just sayin’.

    I was done after the first “drop the knife”.

    And the busy street, cars, people, the guy in the yellow shirt
    Ted Demosthenes
    Suarez International Staff Instructor


    From Murphy's Laws of Combat: "Incoming has the right-of-way" (so, GTFOTX!!)


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •