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  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Default 9mm +P+ for RMR equipped glocks: is it a good choice

    My google foo may be weak since I could not search on 9mm +P+ with the search functions.

    It would seem that the higher velocities of +P+ should gave some small advantage at ranges past 50 yards relative to trajectory and impact for the G19 and G17.
    There is a lot variability between velocities regards of whether labeled as SAMMI Standard and Sammi +P and non-SAMMI spec +P+/ Below are 115 grain 9x19 mm loads fired in a non-glock firearm. I am using a G19 with the bulk buy of the Federal +P+ that likely gets about 1250 fps in the shorter barrel of my G19. There will still be some drop at 100 yards. My club does have a silhouette range going out to 200 yards so I have good place to try such out.
    My major concern is the wear on the gun worth it for what seems to be a smaller advantage.

    Pictures below were captured from someone's video showing the data he got. Unfortunately I do not know the performance of the federal bullet of the Federal +P+ load. Raise velocity and at closer ranges some bullets will fragment. A test of Gold Dot speer +P+ did show show good bullet performance on a close range target of clothing, pork cuttings and oranges.


    harrel cut .jpg

    harrell feb 2019 +9+copy.jpg

    I did rip up a small water moccasin with Federal +P+ in a non-glock firearm. With the iron sights, low evening light, blending to the background, old eyes, I used body shots on the small yearling snake. Wounds to the body suggested expansion on this diminutive target by the federal loads.

    baby Oct Moccasin.png
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
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    Barnetmill, I do have a fair amount of experience with the Fed 115grn +P+ loads. Honestly, I use them in my non-RMR’d full size pistols, especially in my Beretta 92. In that gun, it is approaching 357 SIG velocities and I have found it to be accurate.

    In my SI Guns, I have had much better luck using the Speer Gold Dot 124 +P. I have found it to be accurate and effective well out beyond 100 yards. The same cannot be said for the non+P versions. The non+P does not adequately perform in a G19 sized pistol and should be considered marginal in a G17 length barrel. Unfortunately, this is corroborated by real life shootings in which center chest hits resulted in readily survivable wounds.

    In short, drive it as fast as you can. The SI Match barrels seem to be more accurate with the 124 grain ammunition. I have seen no “additional wear” after shooting thousands and thousands of +P+ loads, assuming you care for your Springs and do some simple inspections.

    ChrisNobody
    “How can I shoot people? Shooting people is easy. It is the simple application of the fundamentals of marksmanship. The hard part is ensuring that I have the physical strength to prevail, the moral strength to know when it is right to kill, and the mental strength to articulate the aftermath such that I maintain my freedom while they experience what comes next in the afterlife.”

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    The +P+ stuff was the choice when bullet design and selection was limited. Today with the specific-for-shooting-humans ammo available...the +P+ stuff is not as important. As a matter of historical note, we used the Winchester +P+ 115 JHP back in the old days. It was marked LE Only and all that jazz and I cracked three S&W 5906 frames and one SIG P226 frame in as many years shooting them.

    I agree with Chris on the 124 Gold Dot. A good alternative is the Black Hills 115 JHP (Barned Bullet ...same as the old DPX).
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    NWFL
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    More research.
    Relative to bullet performance the federal 115 grain +P+ is not a bonded bullet and it can fragment. So the bonded gold dot and the all copper barnes seem to be reported as better relative to holding together. In a test with few samples striking 4-layers of denim make this bullet held together better and penetrated a little less. Striking bare gel resulted in fragmentation. Any of these of projectiles on a head shot and likely center of mass shot will work quite well.
    So likely accuracy and trajectory I think are more important relative to the ammo that is chosen.

    gel penetration pocketgunsandgear.jpg

    Picture of three recovered bullets with the most intact bullet having fired through layers of denim. I think the performance of the three bullets to be effective as ChrisNobody stated for this load base on combat shootings.

    PocketGunsandGear denin best.jpg
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  5. #5
    ChrisNobody is right in that the 124 +P GDHP is excellent. The non-+P version, combined with Glock 19 barrel length, resulted in non-fatal COM hits with zero expansion in a shooting one of my sergeants had.

    We’re going to be a 9mm-only agency very soon and unless ammunition changes the continued non-expansion will persist. Do not mistake this as an issue as even non-expansion is mitigated by proper placement.

    For those who are interested, non-expansion was one of the reasons we went to 5.7 for certain tasks - tumbling and not expansion is the method used by this round.
    Last edited by JonathanNobody; 11-24-2019 at 10:09 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    641
    I may get flamed for this but....
    A YouTube source, I won't name out of respect as they may be in some ways a competitor to SI, did a ammo selection test, basicly 9mm vs .357sig. Their results, no I'm not claiming it gospel truth but an interesting data point, ammo was chronographed from near muzzle and at 100 yards. The .357 Sig lost a higher percentage of fps at 100 yards, thereby had more drop at that distance than 9mm, and none of the .357 Sig rounds retained enough fps at 100yds to allow the round to expand in ballistics gel....
    All that to say, ammo selection it's a balancing act that takes intention and intelligence. More fps may not always be better.
    Last edited by psalms23dad; 11-24-2019 at 10:38 AM.
    Be alert, stand firm in the faith, act like a man, be strong. Your every action must be done with love.

    “Adversity introduces a man to himself.”

  7. #7
    If I had an RMR’d full size duty 9mm I’d feel perfectly fine even with 9mm NATO FMJ if necessary. The magic is the RMR in your equation.

    I have no scientific evidence, but I find all 9mms work better with +P fuel and not the anemic commercial loadings.
    Last edited by JonathanNobody; 11-24-2019 at 12:07 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanNobody View Post
    I have no scientific evidence, but I find all 9mms work better with +P fuel and not the anemic commercial loadings.
    Jonathan is quite correct. Perhaps listening to those who have actually killed people and have the DR Numbers to prove it is more important that whatever the wannabe doorkicker fat kid with the soul patch on Youtube says.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  9. #9
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    NWFL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    Jonathan is quite correct. Perhaps listening to those who have actually killed people and have the DR Numbers to prove it is more important that whatever the wannabe doorkicker fat kid with the soul patch on Youtube says.

    I am paying a lot of attention to the NoBodies and greatly appreciate them being willing to share their knowledge.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    641
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    Jonathan is quite correct. Perhaps listening to those who have actually killed people and have the DR Numbers to prove it is more important that whatever the wannabe doorkicker fat kid with the soul patch on Youtube says.
    That's why I'm here!
    Be alert, stand firm in the faith, act like a man, be strong. Your every action must be done with love.

    “Adversity introduces a man to himself.”

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