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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    5,465
    Wear on the gun: first, remember that the Glock was designed around NATO ammunition, around 36,500 psi. SAAMI +P is specced out at 36,000 psi. So +P is easier on the gun than was the plan. Second, remember that springs are wear items. Replace them somewhere around 3-5000 rounds; don't wait for things to hiccup.

    FWIW, here practice is 124gr NATO and carry is 124gr +P Gold Dot.
    __________

    "To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Nearly Free State of Arizona
    Posts
    335
    All - I think Sam has a very good outlook on this. The 124 grain NATO FMJ is an excellent practice load. It can also be found in bulk for very reasonable prices. No need to go with crap steel cases ammunition of questionable origin as you can nearly always find excellent quality 124 grain NATO on special. It makes the perfect “practice ammunition “ to go with the Speer Gold Dot 124 grn +P loading.

    While there are plenty of “exotic” loads out there, many of which are excellent, accurate, and have been run through external ballistics programs, etc..., the 124 grain Speer Gold Dot +P has a PROVEN track record on the street and in actual flesh - including by contributors of this forum. Use whatever floats your boat, but be aware that the 135 grain +P Critical Defense has failed on a leather belt, and that most exotics claim their lethality on paper and not in flesh. I’d you are going to back me up, please choose something proven, even if it means that your beard isn’t quite as full and your tattoos are not quite as bad ass.
    “How can I shoot people? Shooting people is easy. It is the simple application of the fundamentals of marksmanship. The hard part is ensuring that I have the physical strength to prevail, the moral strength to know when it is right to kill, and the mental strength to articulate the aftermath such that I maintain my freedom while they experience what comes next in the afterlife.”

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    15,231
    The 124 +P bonded speer makes good sense. I am leaning towards a bonded and heavier bullet for a little more penetration since I might have to also deal with hogs or small bears and not have time to retrieve a shotgun or rifle. Using the nato as practice ammo for the recoil and hopefully same impact point makes good sense.
    As an aside I have found that can be differences between generic FMJ white box ammo and mil spec FMJ relative to penetration in wood. I have had military FMJ bullets look pristine after being fired into to yellow pine boards and the generic white box slugs come out deformed. there may well be tactical uses for decent FMJ 9mm.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Where the deer and antelope roam
    Posts
    1,329
    Quote Originally Posted by psalms23dad View Post
    I may get flamed for this but....
    A YouTube source, I won't name out of respect as they may be in some ways a competitor to SI, did a ammo selection test, basicly 9mm vs .357sig. Their results, no I'm not claiming it gospel truth but an interesting data point, ammo was chronographed from near muzzle and at 100 yards. The .357 Sig lost a higher percentage of fps at 100 yards, thereby had more drop at that distance than 9mm, and none of the .357 Sig rounds retained enough fps at 100yds to allow the round to expand in ballistics gel....
    All that to say, ammo selection it's a balancing act that takes intention and intelligence. More fps may not always be better.
    I saw that as well. Even though the 357 lost a higher percentage of velocity it was still faster than the 9mm.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    45,433
    The day is coming when those with firsthand experience and an actual real world body count wont matter. What will matter is how good an entertainer somebody is. Hell...it may already be that day.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Buckeye, AZ
    Posts
    427
    In my old department, we carried the Speer GDHP 124 gr. +p for many years. All I can say is that it was completely effective in our OIS cases with COM placement. I once had a detective from a neighboring agency ask me what we used, as he had been present on a number of OIS posts for both his department and mine. He said our GDHP 124 +p out performed the 180 gr. .40 S&W they issued by a pretty fair margin. I later spoke with the ME. He agreed.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    1,053
    Gabe, there is a reason guys with flags painted on their fuselage teach at Top Gun, similar story with the instructors at Recondo school, back in the day. Folks with experience always matter, and students worth teaching will always seek them out.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    45,433
    Quote Originally Posted by 45Smashemflat View Post
    ....and students worth teaching will always seek them out.
    Alas I think that group diminishes yearly
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Third Coast
    Posts
    4,317
    Those in the 9mm platform are issued speer gold dot bonded 115 +P+ . So far it is doing the job, but any modern hollowpoint with a good shooter behind the sights stands a better chance of doing the job. Ive had OIS with 9mm, .40, 12 ga (#4 disintigrating buck and OO buck)

    A good platform and a good shooter in IMHO the deciding factors.

    Weapons wear might be a factor but the flexibility of the frame seems to absorb it a bit better than alloy frames, and regular maint will go a long way to avoid issues as well.
    Last edited by coastalcop; 02-24-2020 at 12:11 PM.
    NEVER CONFUSE GETTING LUCKY WITH GOOD TACTICS (unless you are at the bar)

    I'm not in the business of Losing

    A stab to the taint beats most of the mystical bullshit, most of the time

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