Shotgun ammo

**Jcord** · 11-16-2019, 03:20 PM

I’ve never engaged a human with a shotgun. I’ve hunted deer for 35 years, using a 12 gauge loaded with
2 3/4 inch number one buckshot. Number one patterns better than 00 and 16 thirty caliber pellets is a heavier
load than 9 thirty-three caliber pellets. The range of kills were generally 25 all the way to 50 yards on running deer. I have never seen a valid reason to choose 00 buck over number 1.
My shotgun is a rem870 with a 20 inch barrel. I prefer the modified choke tube because it works best in my gun. The Wilson made version of the witness protection shotgun used a modified choke as well. I like the idea of these short shotguns but I do not see me using one. I guess it boils down to when in doubt, go with what you know. I’m sure I’ll catch flack for posting about hunting experience when talking about a defensive shotgun, but I’ve killed a heck of a lot more deer than anyone has killed men with one. Killing is killing, and yes I have combat experience as well so I know the difference.

***Gabriel Suarez*** · 11-16-2019, 03:36 PM

Ok...so you like #1 buck. Cool.

Ok...so killing is killing...yeah...to a point. If you dont drop the deer, it isn't going to try to kill you back.

Oh...and there are far more short barreled options today than the Wilson Witness Protection shotgun of the 1980s.

Just saying.

**John_Frederick** · 11-16-2019, 06:04 PM

My 1301T is currently loaded with FC#1 and I'm very comfortable with it doing its job if called upon.
That said, I picked up some FC 8 pellet OO and as soon as I have a chance I will pattern test it. If it holds tighter patterns than the #1 I will switch over. I am most interested in keeping all the lead on the target as far out as possible.
I get the impression that of all the ammunition types in existence the 12g gets the least testing by manufacturers in regards to maximizing its self defense potential.
Why? Because LE and Military groups don't ask for anything better. The 12g has gone out of style and the people who do still use it just load up 00 Buck and roll with it, because that's what they've always done... "It works good enough" instead of "Could it be even better?".
Just my opinion and subject to being wrong.

**Mushinto** · 11-16-2019, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Jcord

I’ve never engaged a human with a shotgun. I’ve hunted deer for 35 years, using a 12 gauge loaded with
2 3/4 inch number one buckshot. Number one patterns better than 00 and 16 thirty caliber pellets is a heavier
load than 9 thirty-three caliber pellets...

Out of curiosity, what exactly do you mean by patterns better?

You have to ask yourself if a tight pattern at 25 yards is what you would want in a self-defense situation. I believe that a head size pattern inside the house serves me best in a shotgun.

--ML

**CaptShack** · 11-16-2019, 08:20 PM

Take the SI Shotgun Gunfighting class and your eyes will be opened to what one of those short shotguns can do. You will learn how to gunfight with a shotgun and all that entails. Killing is killing, but I would hate to be be fighting in close quarters with a 20" shotgun. As Greg Nichols pointed out that everything boils down to role, niche and envelope. Hunting deer in the forest, taking longer range shotgun shots, a 20" shotgun with some kind of flight control tightly packed load is perfect. Hunting a human that is shooting back at you in CQB, there are much better tools for that role. I am a convert to the SI stakeout weapon system. It is the queen, I dare say the king, of the close range niche. After you get the right tool, you pick the correct ammunition for your envelope.

**45Smashemflat** · 11-17-2019, 07:39 AM

#4 in the gun, with #00 and a few slugs in the carry bag. This is in a 13" Suarez barrel. Group is saucer-sized inside my house and stays on the chest of a B27 out to 25-30 yards. For what I use this gun for - home defense/truck gun, that's what I want. I have other tools for other roles. I like the pattern density of #4 in these scenarios.