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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    Pennsylvania
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    416

    Default Even some liberals are getting pissed at the Dems impeachment tactics.

    The gentleman seems to be a bit put out.


    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...peachment-news


    "What I want to know, and what we all should want to know, is why are the Democrats serving up hearsay information? Why arenít the staffers themselves who allegedly heard the conversations on the stand testifying? The testimony should come under oath from those who allegedly heard the conversations. Are the House Democrats going to impeach the President of the United States on second-hand hearsay information?

    As for the investigation of the Bidens and their payoffs for blocking Ukraineís investigation of the corruption in Burisma, the Ukrainian company that hired the protection of Biden, Trump doesnít need to ask for it in exchange for $1 billion. Ukrainian officials have released the records. http://www.stationgossip.com/2019/11...ecords-of.html The presstitutes have not reported the release. Donít expect the whores to report any true facts. They are incapable of it."
    "I have many people, but few men."
    -Xerxes, King of Persia, at the battle of Thermopylae

    "Charity has got everything to do with giving and absolutely nothing to do with taking."

    "Studies show that a rapist who has been shot several times loses ardor."
    -Fred Reed

    I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever.
    -Thomas Jefferson




    Trench

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
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    MI
    Posts
    39
    The real crime?- giving Ukraine or ANY other nation money and arms.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    15,593
    What I would like to see is those congress critters being under oath and threat of perjury while they question folks. Hold them accountable for their lies
    I rather you hated me for who I am than love me for who I ain't!
    This Ain't the Movies, and You Ain't John Wayne!

    Sometimes it is entirely appropriate to kill a fly with a 12 pound sledgehammer!
    TRAIN HARD= SOONER OR LATER YOU"LL NEED IT!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    399
    and that asshat Brennan

  5. #5
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    May 2006
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    NWFL
    Posts
    15,067
    The house has a long history of using hearings to do people in without any real evidence. It can come from both sides of the isle. This is strictly political theater. Only those blinded by political fanaticism are not able to see through it; that includes a lot of people. Pe-louse et al know they can not get a conviction in the senate. So I assume they think a house impeachment might sway the voters to give them a victory in the 2020 election. It is diverting people away from looking deeply at the platforms that are being presented to the public.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    arizona
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    138
    all i can say is this whole show is a waste of our money and time.

  7. #7
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    Apr 2014
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    Southeast Florida
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    1,768
    I'm guessing Gabe doesn't want us getting into arguments over this stuff so I'll try to restrain myself, but I suspect that many of you are rather under-informed about this stuff (especially if you are spending time on sites like ZeroHedge).

    What most people are either missing or ignoring is that what we are seeing in real time is the equivalent of a grand jury proceeding, which is normally and for good reason a private process. In an ideal world nobody would hear about any of this until the trial starts in the Senate and there is a prosecutor figure making an opening statement, telling the story and laying out what to expect. Instead we are getting leaks and partial information from the investigative process (the private depositions in the basement of the Capitol), we are seeing live on TV the witnesses testifying in front of the grand jury (with the addition of representatives from the defendant attempting to cast doubt on the testimony and trashing the process), and we will see the deliberations and votes cast by the members of the grand jury live on TV, all before a single indictment is issued against the defendant.

    So you can buy all the BS being spewed by the people criticizing and questioning the process every step of the way if you want, but realize that it's all irrelevant and simple partisan hackery.

    This obsessive emphasis on the whistle blower is like somebody called the local police tip line and was promised anonymity, and then after the investigation uncovers a bunch of evidence of the crime being committed everybody demands that person be identified and called to testify as if it has some great bearing on the question of what crime was actually committed! You get the impression they are saying that if the tip was bad, then it means the end of the process and no further investigation is warranted.

    To make it more messy, this is a political process (with the rules completely at the discretion of the majority of the House) and not a criminal one, so all this pious talk about the 6th Amendment is irrelevant. But regardless, the accuser is not the whistle blower, it will be the House of Representatives when they present articles of impeachment to the Senate. THAT'S when the president is entitled to defense representation. In what criminal investigation is the suspect's attorney allowed to sit in on investigator's interviews and depositions and the grand jury testimony and cross-examine witnesses? Yet we have people like Rand Paul claiming there is some great travesty here because the whistle blower is not being cross-examined by the president's attorney... And yet the president does have advantages over the typical criminal procedure, because he does at least have people acting as his representatives in the process every step of the way trying to influence the members of the grand jury in his favor. And if you want to go even farther, the defendant actually has the ability to not only talk to and attempt to influence members of the grand jury AND the future members of the real jury, he actually has the ability to literally bribe and make deals with them legally!

    Anyway, all this talk about hearsay not being admitted is irrelevant, because it's not a criminal procedure. And like any good prosecutor, they aren't starting with their star witnesses first, they are starting at the bottom and working their way up. The first person witnesses have already done their private depositions and their public testimony is coming, and any of these public figures acting like none of these witnesses are relevant are just playing a game for your benefit.

    But further than that, the most important eyewitnesses who would be testifying in a real trial are defying subpoenas, something that would get them thrown in jail in any other judicial proceeding. Think about that--some aren't even fighting it in court anymore, they are literally just ignoring it and saying "make me"! You would think that if the President were as innocent as he says he is, that he would tell Mulvaney, Giuliani, etc. to go testify. Instead they are openly defying the duly elected representatives of the people engaged in their constitutional role. They aren't taking the 5th, they aren't claiming executive privilege, the are literally just saying "screw you". If you aren't bothered by that, then ask yourself how you'd feel if it were Obama's people doing that to a Republican House.

    Regarding the underlying story of what happened in Ukraine... if you live in right wing media you are being fed a continual stream of BS and outright fiction all day every day.

    It has been well established that:

    -- The investigations in Ukraine of Burisma involved stuff that happened before Hunter Biden was on the board

    -- The guy who Joe Biden pushed to have fired was actually NOT investigating Burisma. The investigation was dormant and not being pursued, and Biden was implementing the consensus policy, not just that of the entire Obama administration but in agreement with the European countries, various anti-corruption independent organizations, etc.

    -- Biden (and everybody else) wanted the guy fired because he was NOT investigating corruption

    -- The guy who replaced that guy RESUMED the investigation into Burisma, which if you believe the original "Biden did something corrupt" story is the complete opposite of what he would have wanted to happen

    -- The original conspiracy theories about Biden (and the stories against the ambassador who Trump said was bad and fired) were started by the bad guys in Ukraine who were unhappy with the anti-corruption efforts

    -- The conspiracy theory about Ukraine being involved in the 2016 election hacking instead of Russia was literally first proposed by Putin himself and pushed by the same Russia troll farms that were so active in the 2016 election

    -- The CrowdStrike conspiracy theory has been completely and utterly debunked and never had any basis in fact; The stuff about some server in Ukraine is complete nonsense, but Trump chooses to believe conspiracy theories over the conclusions of the entire US government and all its experts



    If any of that is news to you, you should reconsider where you get your news.


    ETA: Just in case there's any confusion--none of this has any connection to the question of who should have won in 2016, or who should win in 2020. It's also completely separate from the question of whether Trump should be removed from office. It's not even about right vs wrong, good vs bad, etc. It's simply about what is true, what are the real facts, what is propaganda, what is partisan/tribal BS, etc.
    Last edited by mike135; 11-16-2019 at 01:20 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    NWFL
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    15,067
    What is the story on this person
    Eric Ciaramella Bio, Wiki

    Eric Ciaramella is a 33-year-old CIA analyst and former National Security Council staffer who has been named as possibly being the whistleblower as per an article by Real Clear Investigations which was tweeted by Senator Rand Paul. Ciaramella came forward with concerns about President Donald Trumpís interactions with the president of Ukraine, leading to an official impeachment inquiry.
    He has served in both the Obama and Trump administrations as a career intelligence officer.
    Eric Ciaramella Whistleblower



    eric ciaramella.jpg
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,997
    Trump made me a ton of money since his election. He is leaving my guns, my money, and me alone. I do not give a rancid dog shit what else he does or wants to do. I will vote for him again. Done and done.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,090
    Quote Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
    What is the story on this person




    eric ciaramella.jpg
    That picture is of Alex Soros not the WB. Better, those pictures. Hard to believe they have lookalike Beta males, but even though Ciaramella is a total lefty, those aren’t pics of him.
    Last edited by Vigilant; 11-17-2019 at 05:58 PM.

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