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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by psalms23dad View Post
    What response would you have if this had been asked of you? Would you use a live blade in a demo being performed by a stranger?
    A lot of other countries and cultures have different notions of "realistic" training and different standards for safety.

    Take the "finger outside of the trigger guard" that we accept largely as gospel. There was a guy used to post here--SAS, lived in Brazil, died a few years ago (can't remember his name) who IIRC asserted that they did it differently in the SAS--when they were expecting contact they would have the finger INSIDE the trigger guard and consciously pressed forward against the guard.

    Take the safety. AR/M16 trained folks flip the safety off, fire, flip it back on. The AK is run to a different doctrine.

    Now, I don't know this fellow, and *I* would not be comfortable doing the disarm with a live blade, but without knowing what his background is and where he comes from I won't call him out.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyOblivion View Post
    A lot of other countries and cultures have different notions of "realistic" training and different standards for safety.

    Take the "finger outside of the trigger guard" that we accept largely as gospel. There was a guy used to post here--SAS, lived in Brazil, died a few years ago (can't remember his name) who IIRC asserted that they did it differently in the SAS--when they were expecting contact they would have the finger INSIDE the trigger guard and consciously pressed forward against the guard.

    Take the safety. AR/M16 trained folks flip the safety off, fire, flip it back on. The AK is run to a different doctrine.

    Now, I don't know this fellow, and *I* would not be comfortable doing the disarm with a live blade, but without knowing what his background is and where he comes from I won't call him out.
    That was Anthony, and he was a Royal Marine (not SAS) who did a covert operations stint in Northern Ireland wiht 14th Int. It was an environment in which a nano-second could be the decider between survival or funeral when he was there.

    That's totally different from some unknown bozo walking into your Dojo, putting on a show and then wanting to play with real sharps for unknown reasons.

  3. #33
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    Aug 2005
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    511
    My first Sensei shared a story with us one night at the Dojo telling us how he finished a demonstration first before going to the hospital after being stabbed through the hand during a Demo.

    Just starting out in the Karate I thought that was how things were done and I was impressed with his toughness continuing after being stabbed.

    Having watched a bunch of demonstrations and having taken part in one/two since then I realized that there is nothing to be gained by using a Life Blade, that it does not enhance the demonstration in any way; that there could not be a worse advertisement instead for your school if one of the participants gets slashed/stabbed during a Knife Defence Technique.Demonstrating to everybody how your Karate does not work.

    As a side-note I found that handing somebody a Knife/Stick in the Dojo, even a Training Knife was a great way to judge training maturity, which is not always only strictly based on age.

    If the person listens attentively to my safety instructions and the follow them closely I know that I now have another potential weapons training partner. I will continue to keep a close eye on them for the next time/two before completely relaxing.

    On the other hand if they immediately start jumping around when I hand over the Blade, acting as if they got a sword in the hand, while making accompanying sound effect noises I immediately ask then the hand the Knife back to me; Proofing to me to me that they are still immature when it comes to training.

    Not only in handling a weapon but also being in-trusted with more serious Bunkai and acting as a training partner, especially feeding attacks.

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  4. #34
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    May 2011
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    965
    Quote Originally Posted by psalms23dad View Post
    We had a older gentleman (late 60s I'd guess) in the dojo this morning at a open house event. This man performed a cane fighting demo. (First time I've ever seen him) he asked me to help him and then he pulled a live blade from his pocket and asked me to place it against his neck while he performed a defense against it. I told him we had rubber demo knives and I'd get one. He assured me, somewhat demandingly, to use his knife. I respectfully refused. For one, I don't know him, know what his plan was, and honeslty i didnt have anything to prove. A rubber knife was handed to me by a lead instructor and we proceeded.

    What response would you have if this had been asked of you? Would you use a live blade in a demo being performed by a stranger?
    That sounds so 1980s.

    Of course, the answer is F*** no!

    But I'm curious did the guy have skills with the cane? With the trainer blade disarm and in general?

  5. #35
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    Oct 2010
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    There's a fine line between hard and retard.... this crosses it.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
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    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    There's a fine line between hard and retard.... this crosses it.
    You really should design some t-shirts.
    Be alert, stand firm in the faith, act like a man, be strong. Your every action must be done with love.

    “Adversity introduces a man to himself.”

  7. #37
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    May 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyOblivion View Post
    A lot of other countries and cultures have different notions of "realistic" training and different standards for safety.

    Take the "finger outside of the trigger guard" that we accept largely as gospel. There was a guy used to post here--SAS, lived in Brazil, died a few years ago (can't remember his name) who IIRC asserted that they did it differently in the SAS--when they were expecting contact they would have the finger INSIDE the trigger guard and consciously pressed forward against the guard.

    Take the safety. AR/M16 trained folks flip the safety off, fire, flip it back on. The AK is run to a different doctrine.

    Now, I don't know this fellow, and *I* would not be comfortable doing the disarm with a live blade, but without knowing what his background is and where he comes from I won't call him out.
    What ever Anthony told you, one should pay a lot of attention to it. Every response to should be in best agreement to your environment including your training and your equipment.
    A FAL that was issued in the British military was unlikely to have target trigger. If I was a full condition of alarm looking for an opponent my finger would be exactly the same. The gun's muzzle would be out in front and pointed towards where I thought the danger might be.
    I would not do it with a one oz target trigger and yes they do exist for some specialized target rifles.
    Once the rifle comes off your shoulder the safety comes off and stays off until you sling it again. This is how it was in the SI training tape for use of the AK and should translate well to any combat rifle.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
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    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
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  8. #38
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    Apr 2005
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    Different cultures is not a good excuse for what was described in the opening post. There was no mention of the demo guy being anything other than an American.

    Cane fighting as it is commonly taught mainly comes from hanbojutsu, which is a Japanese martial art (usually taught within various systems) and the Japanese have used wooden training blades for many years. I actually suspect that Lynn Thompson has the original Cold Steel Tanto built to the size it was due to that being the typical size of the wooden tantos commonly used in Japanese systems and other systems that adopted those as their training knives.

    Filipino martial arts have also long used wooden training blades, as have European martial arts.

    With bokken and wasters were are talking about a time span of hundreds of years. IIRC even the Romans used wooden training swords.

    Cold Steel training knives are cheap, last long, and are effective for training. There is no excuse for instructors not to use them. Unlike the common junk rubber "training knives," I've never had one break even though I've used these longer and put them through more abuse. The only one that was damaged was one I cut down to make a folder/neck knife trainer.

    The difference with guns is that quality training weapons are relatively new and were not really widespread until recent years. Airsofts were not easy to find until the late 1990s and it took a while until they were accepted. Red and Blue guns were not common in dojos until the 1990s.

    When I took Karate in the 1988-89 school year, we did use real firearms for disarm training. The self-defense class was small (this was not part of the regular class,) consisting of me, the instructor, assistant instructor, and three adult students. Before each drill, the cylinder would be opened and both the uke, tori, and instructor would check to see if it was empty, and then we'd do the drill, and check again when we switch. I wouldn't recommend this today, but back then most instructors probably did not even know Red and Blue guns existed. Back then you would have needed to read something "Soldier of Fortune" or a police magazine like "SWAT" to know about these types of products. Now there are even better options. This was also before I had any firearms training. The class used wooden knives for the counter-knife training.

    IIRC the live blade training idea is relatively new and is a pseudo-tough guy approach some people used on martial arts and self-defense forums to brag about how "realistic" their training was. I remember this coming up as a short-lived fad in the early 2000s.

    I also remember a case where an instructor was arrested for stabbing a student. He had a real folder clipped in his pocket and reflexively drew it and stabbed the student during a training session.
    "Why should I trade one tyrant 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants one mile away. An elected legislature can trample a man's rights as easily as the king can." Benjamin Martin, The Patriot

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