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  1. #41
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    962
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    My opinion is that the mount misses the point of everything. You in effect are trying to use an open rifle sight in the position where an aperture sight should be. This will do nothing right. If you cannot take the red dot sight OFF and use the irons to do as well, then they are worthless. I saw this set up in class and I would NOT use it on a shotgun of mine.

    Using a Stakeout PGO weapon, you cannot use ghost rings...you need rifle sights. Using a braced/stocked weapon, a ghost ring set up will work best. This halfways this-halfways that smacks of the movement to put ghost ring sights on pistols a decade ago.
    Thanks. I was curious if you'd seen those.

    I can see how ghost rings best use is on a braced/stock weapon, but are you saying they're actually better than rifle sights on a stocked/braced stakeout, or am I misreading what you wrote?

    I would've thought rifle sights the better option either way.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Palmer, Alaska
    Posts
    7,003
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    My opinion is that the mount misses the point of everything. You in effect are trying to use an open rifle sight in the position where an aperture sight should be. This will do nothing right. If you cannot take the red dot sight OFF and use the irons to do as well, then they are worthless. I saw this set up in class and I would NOT use it on a shotgun of mine.

    Using a Stakeout PGO weapon, you cannot use ghost rings...you need rifle sights. Using a braced/stocked weapon, a ghost ring set up will work best.
    A more thorough breakdown of this would be appreciated. Specifically, the differences between the best sight set-up for a stocked/braced gun as opposed to a PGO. And also any theories you have to offer as to why one system is better for one gun and not the other. Another thread may be appropriate.
    Virtute et Armis

  3. #43
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,884
    Quote Originally Posted by khadga View Post
    Thanks. I was curious if you'd seen those.

    I can see how ghost rings best use is on a braced/stock weapon, but are you saying they're actually better than rifle sights on a stocked/braced stakeout, or am I misreading what you wrote?

    I would've thought rifle sights the better option either way.
    The brace/stock makes the difference. If it is there, the face is on the same spot all the time. If not, it is like using a pistol. In my experience, a proper aperture rear sight (not that half-assed half-ring) will allow better physical alignment of the weapon than the rifle sights....AS LONG AS YOUR FACE IS ANCHORED ON THE BRACE.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  4. #44
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,884
    Quote Originally Posted by LawDog View Post
    A more thorough breakdown of this would be appreciated. Specifically, the differences between the best sight set-up for a stocked/braced gun as opposed to a PGO. And also any theories you have to offer as to why one system is better for one gun and not the other. Another thread may be appropriate.

    We have kinda done that for a while now.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    5,574
    To be clear, when I mentioned “ring and dot” above, I was referring to the ring/dot LED of the holosun. I was not referring to iron ghost rings.

    I agree with Gabe - ghost rings are great for a stocked shotgun. But you must be able to shoulder it to get a consistent sight picture.

    PGOs work best with rifle sights and/or a red dot. This is as close to a pistol as you can get.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

    Upcoming classes:

    Pistol Groundfighting, Kansas
    Pistol Groundfighting, Washington

  6. #46
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    962
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    The brace/stock makes the difference. If it is there, the face is on the same spot all the time. If not, it is like using a pistol. In my experience, a proper aperture rear sight (not that half-assed half-ring) will allow better physical alignment of the weapon than the rifle sights....AS LONG AS YOUR FACE IS ANCHORED ON THE BRACE.
    Thank you, that makes perfect sense.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Third Coast
    Posts
    4,265
    OK, the holosun arrived today and is mounted to the tac13 . Thoughts for this setup are as follows, with compare/contrast to triangle rmr:

    Holosun appears fairly robust, though not as robust as the RMR (not really a big reveal is that ;)

    Sight picture: I actually prefer the sight picture of the holosun. The ring/dot setup is more intuitive and obscures less of the target beyond giving you a "quicker" feel to the sight system.

    Holosun sits slightly higher on the gun (remember that the RMR has horns" and the holosun is an arch) by a slight amount.

    Im going to abuse the holosun for a bit for overall toughness (Ive had a few dual illum RMRs and they ALL still work after abusing the heck out of them) to see how it works out.

    Have had another couple hundred shells through the tac 13..... still no failures.
    NEVER CONFUSE GETTING LUCKY WITH GOOD TACTICS (unless you are at the bar)

    I'm not in the business of Losing

    A stab to the taint beats most of the mystical bullshit, most of the time

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Palmer, Alaska
    Posts
    7,003
    I've currently got a dual-illum RMR on my EDC with the amber triangle. I tried it based on the fact that it seems to not blur at all for those of us with an astigmatism. While the crispness of the triangle is good, I really prefer the small LED dot. I've got a couple of other guns with RM06's (3.25 MOA dot) on them, and I've almost pulled one off to rotate it to the EDC gun. Now you guys have me wondering about the Holosun. The draw for me is that it comes with a 2 MOA dot rather than the 3.25. I have a 1 MOA dot RMR onto a PCC, but played with it briefly on a pistol. I decided that I don't really like the 1 MOA dot on a pistol, but I do like it on a PCC. I've also run T1/T2 Aimpoints with a 2 MOA dot. With all of that background experience, I think that a 2 MOA dot on the pistol might be perfect. Saving a few dollars wouldn't draw me to the Holosun, but the reduced dot size might. I'd probably get the 508T--it's the same as the 507c but with a titanium body.

    I'll be interested in hearing updates on this. I like the idea of a smaller dot, but am still somewhat leery of Holosun.
    Virtute et Armis

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    5,574
    I love the holosun on a shotgun. it feels a bit big for a pistol, but I do think it's a viable alternative.

    I hear you on the astigmatism. The smaller dots do help in that area.

    I've worked with the triangles a lot and while they work really, really well in daylight, they dim too much for me indoors and in low light.

    If the dual illum dot just came in smaller MOA that's probably all I would use.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

    Upcoming classes:

    Pistol Groundfighting, Kansas
    Pistol Groundfighting, Washington

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