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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Melbourne, Florida
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    710
    Whatever happened to shouting, "POLICE DEPARTMENT. IS ANY ONE HOME?"

    To much ninja and not enough sense.

    --ML

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    254
    Sounds like this thing comes crashing right down on the officer's shoulders. Sad to see that he made that egregious a mistake, although it sounds he recognized that and resigned ahead of getting the boot.

    The one thing that could help him out: if the resident he shot had a firearm in her hand and visible through the window when she appeared at the window. That would not excuse his mistake, but it might help him mitigate his sentence, because if that happened, it was a dumb move on her part.

    But that said, sounds like this guy screwed up royally, so let's learn from what he did. Case closed.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
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    44,906
    Quote Originally Posted by coastalcop View Post
    As I said, not enough info yet, but possibly fear biting (getting that person where you didnt expect one)
    I wonder what the collective response would be if police showed up to an accountant's office, a doctor's office, or an IT guy's office and proceeded to tell tem how to do their specific jobs better?

    On this event, somebody please do a demographic search and repost back on socio-ethnicity and income levels of the area, That will give us a general indication of the sort of calls the police receive. Fair? No...its reality.

    As well, what information was given to the police. I suspect if I tell you that your wife and daughter are in the process of being raped to death, give you a rifle and say "GO SAVE THEM". And then after you step into the room and kill everything not your wife and daughter, it was revealed that...whoops...my information was not quite correct. Its not really YOUR fault is it?

    But then again...the fear biting thing is a common element. Police are a cross section of American society and except for a few segments of that society, it is becoming populated by mentally and emotionally weaker and fearful people.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    108
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    I wonder what the collective response would be if police showed up to an accountant's office, a doctor's office, or an IT guy's office and proceeded to tell tem how to do their specific jobs better?


    But then again...the fear biting thing is a common element.
    And that's why I started this thread...
    (1) Would like to know from LEO's their thoughts on this shooting. Standard response to this type of call? Tactical choices made by Officer on scene? etc??
    (2) Short clip of Body Cam certainly "seemed" like the "Fear-Aggression" discussions presented on WT.
    (3) Lessons (IF ANY) for Non-Leo's at home

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Southeast Florida
    Posts
    1,761
    Whenever I see these stories, I can't help but think about mindset. It seems like veteran officers are more likely to keep their brains working, think about less-than-worst-case possibilities, consider alternatives to aggressive action, etc. For example, shining a flashlight into a window might be a reasonable thing to do. But when you see somebody inside, one officer might assume they are the bad guy and treat them as such while another might consider the possibility that they AREN'T a bad guy and proceed accordingly. If there's no obvious indication of somebody in danger (no details from the caller, nobody screaming, etc.), simply moving to the side of the window protects the officer while he figures it out. Shooting immediately implies the officer assumed it was a bad guy.

    I thought David French had a good take on the big picture:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/...heir-mistakes/

    There is absolutely no question that police have a difficult job. There is no question that even routine encounters and wellness checks can — on rare occasions — escalate to deadly violence. But there is also no question that time and again police have enhanced the risk to the public through their own mistakes. Poor tactics can yield terrible results, and police should not be able to use the “split-second decision” defense when they created the crisis.

    There is no greater violation of liberty than the loss of your own life in your own home at the hands of misguided, panicky, or poorly trained agents of the state.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    871
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    But then again...the fear biting thing is a common element. Police are a cross section of American society and except for a few segments of that society, it is becoming populated by mentally and emotionally weaker and fearful people.
    That's the irony of this. Officer 'meat eating looking for a gunfight with criminals' type is far less likely to kill you an innocent that officer 'Social Worker Lives with his Mom and is scared of the dark'.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,291
    It has to do with competence, confidence and skill-at-arms.

    I wasn't there. But there's nothing in the body cam footage that triggers my spidey sense. We are told that the door was ajar all day. Did this officer know that?

    The interior looks trashed, but no worse than anything we run into daily and less than most.

    Was that gun in her hand, and did he see it before he shot?

    Questions of fact for the trier of fact.

    And the activists, the police administration and the Mayor need to shut the f*** up unless and until guilt has been established.
    Last edited by Papa; 10-15-2019 at 04:25 PM.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "Can I move?...I'm better when I move."

    1, 0, 12. And a wakeup.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    33
    I truly believe that most of these very bad moves by police are an absolute consequence of the lowering of standards and for in equal parts the lower standards from the recruit Poole , I’ve never really seen a large discussion on it but my LEO friends and family talk about it; some smaller departments even for a time didn’t hire new blood, it started shortly after Holder as AG said categorically that exams and such were racist because they were difficult- don’t remember the first large department sued over this but do do remember it happening as I want to long out of the Corps and tinkering with the idea of wearing a badge - so standards were lowered , not everywhere maybe but who wants to be juiced by the DOJ and possibly miss out on gear and grant money? So thing we’re made more “fair” and things like gang affiliation and drug use could receive a waiver- in some cities- big city not to far from oir AO made headlines for hiring a. On English speaking officer - the test of the story is it was a disaster and he quietly resigned with no headlines in he paper, and there are indeed some soy boy mommy’s little man types out there, don’t believe the nonsense though that it’s all young men - I teach to many good ones in hunters safety and coach them in sports and have them do chores on the farm to believe they are all useless- but lower standards and and weaker simpler recruits can not do anything but bring a decline in desired outcomes and service. Just my two cents not trying to flame or pick apart anyone’s pet theories .

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    15,580
    I heard a news report today that said she had the gun in her hand because she had heard someone messing around in her yard in the dark. Sounds reasonable to me, but then again, we don't know it all yet and never will
    I rather you hated me for who I am than love me for who I ain't!
    This Ain't the Movies, and You Ain't John Wayne!

    Sometimes it is entirely appropriate to kill a fly with a 12 pound sledgehammer!
    TRAIN HARD= SOONER OR LATER YOU"LL NEED IT!

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
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    14,998
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragsbo View Post
    I heard a news report today that said she had the gun in her hand because she had heard someone messing around in her yard in the dark. Sounds reasonable to me, but then again, we don't know it all yet and never will
    Latest version of events:

    ...........when the information was relayed to two police officers who responded, it was classified as an “open structure” call, a vague term that can mean anything from an abandoned house to a burglary. The officers parked about a block away, spoke in low voices as they crept through the yard and did not knock on the door to announce themselves as the police.
    ..................The woman, Atatiana Jefferson, had been up late playing video games with her 8-year-old nephew when she heard noises outside. Her nephew told the authorities that she had pulled a handgun from her purse and pointed it at the window, according to an arrest warrant released on Tuesday.
    .....unclear what the officer, Aaron Y. Dean, saw when he looked into the window, which was obscured by the reflection of his flashlight on the glass, at least according to the body camera video released by the police. Mr. Dean has declined to give an interview to investigators,...
    From his partner and not helpful for sure
    ...........his partner on the call said that she saw only Ms. Jefferson’s face in the window at the time of the shooting.

    ....................Ms. Jefferson’s brother, Adarius Carr, said the problems in the Fort Worth Police Department extended beyond the actions of a single officer.
    “This rookie cop is not going to be the scapegoat for what happened,” he said. “Yes, he is going to take his punishment, but the system failed him. Whoever senior who was with him failed him. Whoever sent him out failed him. The training failed him. There is a lot that has to get fixed.”
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/15/u...ort-worth.html
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

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