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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    587
    I wonder what would have happened if she would have shot the "prowler" in her back yard?
    At least it would not have been a political show trial, just a case of mistaken identity, probably not even civil liability because he was in her back yard.

    Resigning sounded like a bad move, probably goes to his state of mind.

    Like last week's case in Dallas, young cops. I really think neither of these would have happened with 35 year old police. With time, you get a feeling for going slow.

    My last job was in a public utility. Management was using both barrels: hiring dumb and forever scheming to get rid of the old guys with experience. Glad I'm retired.

    Lesson learned--keep your gun hidden as best as possible.
    "Stupidity is thinking you can continually outvote an endless stream of third world socialists"

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    NC for now
    Posts
    34
    I can only imagine the level of stress this young man is experiencing. 1.5 years into the job and in the blink of an eye he’s the headline across the nation.
    I am sure he didn’t go there hoping for blood and this is a horrific tragedy.

    I have thoughts about what could’ve caused the shot fired but don’t really know and nobody here knows either. Only the officer who fired the shot and whoever he told knows right now.

    I answer welfare check calls frequently and have encountered many things from natural deaths to burglars fleeing the scene as I arrive. I will not arm chair quarterback this young man. It’s a tragic event but doesn’t speak for all law enforcement and their training .

    Society wants to blame the training and say it’s low standards or whatever and they really have no clue. There is no “perfect training “ in such a dynamic environment. It isn’t a sport where you always have a good idea what to expect. You try to prepare for whatever comes, but you’re still human. Training matters and matters on the highest level, the capability to properly use the tools you’re issued is paramount, but tragedy will occasionally happen at the hands of a human making errors.

    As a field trainer I try to teach things from experience beyond the standards but they all are human beings with the capability of making mistakes or misjudgments, life changing errors that cannot be mended. I can honestly say that the young officers I am seeing come into “my agency” lately are some of the finest and sharpest people I’ve ever met. With that being my opinion, they’re still human.

    People that DO NOT care about the woman who died are going to drive this one until the wheels fall off.
    Last edited by millergun; 10-16-2019 at 11:08 AM.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    160
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    I wonder what the collective response would be if police showed up to an accountant's office, a doctor's office, or an IT guy's office and proceeded to tell tem how to do their specific jobs better?

    On this event, somebody please do a demographic search and repost back on socio-ethnicity and income levels of the area, That will give us a general indication of the sort of calls the police receive. Fair? No...its reality.
    I live in the Fort Worth area, and was able to pull this up for the zip code the home is in
    Capture.JPG
    the area has been gentrified to an extent (Fairmount area of Fort Worth) but there are still poorer neighborhoods in immediate area, and it's a few blocks west of John Peter Smith county hospital

    Those of you who have LEO backgrounds would be much better at interpreting those stats, for what they are worth, as they would impact individual officers working the area.
    “Nobody trusts anyone, or why did they put tilt on a pinball machine.”
    Steve McQueen



  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,925
    THE OTHER SHOE

    Atatiana Jefferson pointed gun at window before Fort Worth officer killed her, nephew told authorities


    The police chief says it made sense for the 28-year-old to arm herself if she thought someone was in the backyard of her home.

    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,305
    And what does the police chief think about being confronted with a firearm at an open door call?

    Oh, that's right. He, and the mayor, and the activists have already convicted the suspect.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    1, 0, 09. And a wakeup.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    5,437
    I can’t help but think of all the blue on blue killings. You know, where the guy in plainclothes gets read as a threat to the uniform on a call. Can’t say that any of those were prosecuted. Preventable tragedies, many of them, if only one of the guys would have acted just a bit differently.
    __________

    "To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,305
    Read the quotes from the crybaby chief, preferably before breakfast.

    "This community is indeed fortunate to have a shepherd like him."
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    1, 0, 09. And a wakeup.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Southeast Florida
    Posts
    1,764
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    And what does the police chief think about being confronted with a firearm at an open door call?

    Oh, that's right. He, and the mayor, and the activists have already convicted the suspect.
    I'm not arguing with your point about the chief and what's happening with how they are treating this situation, and to be clear I'm very pro-LE and anti-stupid politicians/LE brass.

    But as Sam points out above, this is something that we seem to see a lot and it really irritates me. So many times it seems the mindset in LE is "gun=bad guy". I actually have talked to cops who said if they see a guy with a gun when responding to a call they are going to shoot him, no questions asked. Especially in these big city departments, and considering the talent pool they draw from, I suspect that (conscious or not) that's the mindset of many officers.

    But this is America--like it or not, there are a bunch of good guys who own guns, and the most likely place many of them will have them in their hands is inside their home. If you are responding to a call and there's nobody screaming inside and you have no definitive indication that something bad is currently happening inside, you should be considering the very real possibility that anybody inside with a gun might be a good guy.

    Of course the other part of the problem is that there is a lot of pressure from various sources to be a hero, go save the victim and get the bad guy, etc. When it goes right then it's celebrated. When it goes wrong it's "a trigger-happy racist cop".

    Supposedly the first rule for doctors is "do no harm" (we all know how far they are from that today especially as it relates to prescription drugs, but that's another topic). It would be nice if more police officers operated on a policy of "prioritize not getting it wrong over the urge/pressure to get it right", but in today's environment I suspect that ship has sailed. As we've seen so many times, you're damned if do, damned if you don't. If you're the good guy who got mistaken for a bad guy you wish they'd slow down. If it's your relative who died because they weren't fast enough you trash them on TV and sue them for millions.

    ETA: I should make it clear that I come from a more libertarian perspective that says that the individual is ultimately responsible for their own safety, not society or the government. So law enforcement should certainly try to get bad guys and take them off the street as part of a primary mission to protect the public in general, but they are not obligated to stop every bad thing from happening as soon as possible. Unfortunately I'm sure I'm in a very small minority with that view today. It's just part of the ongoing decline away from personal responsibility we've seen happening for a long time...
    Last edited by mike135; 10-18-2019 at 10:47 AM.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    15,001
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post
    I can’t help but think of all the blue on blue killings. You know, where the guy in plainclothes gets read as a threat to the uniform on a call. Can’t say that any of those were prosecuted. Preventable tragedies, many of them, if only one of the guys would have acted just a bit differently.
    But there is the other side of coin. What about when it is actually a bad guy. Time for second guessing is a luxury that I have seated in front of my computer.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    15,001
    Quote Originally Posted by mike135 View Post
    I'm not arguing with your point about the chief and what's happening with how they are treating this situation, and to be clear I'm very pro-LE and anti-stupid politicians/LE brass.

    But as Sam points out above, this is something that we seem to see a lot and it really irritates me. So many times it seems the mindset in LE is "gun=bad guy". I actually have talked to cops who said if they see a guy with a gun when responding to a call they are going to shoot him, no questions asked. Especially in these big city departments, and considering the talent pool they draw from, I suspect that (conscious or not) that's the mindset of many officers.

    But this is America--like it or not, there are a bunch of good guys who own guns, and the most likely place many of them will have them in their hands is inside their home. If you are responding to a call and there's nobody screaming inside and you have no definitive indication that something bad is currently happening inside, you should be considering the very real possibility that anybody inside with a gun might be a good guy.

    Of course the other part of the problem is that there is a lot of pressure from various sources to be a hero, go save the victim and get the bad guy, etc. When it goes right then it's celebrated. When it goes wrong it's "a trigger-happy racist cop".

    Supposedly the first rule for doctors is "do no harm" (we all know how far they are from that today especially as it relates to prescription drugs, but that's another topic). It would be nice if more police officers operated on a policy of "prioritize not getting it wrong over the urge/pressure to get it right", but in today's environment I suspect that ship has sailed. As we've seen so many times, you're damned if do, damned if you don't. If you're the good guy who got mistaken for a bad guy you wish they'd slow down. If it's your relative who died because they weren't fast enough you trash them on TV and sue them for millions.

    ETA: I should make it clear that I come from a more libertarian perspective that says that the individual is ultimately responsible for their own safety, not society or the government. So law enforcement should certainly try to get bad guys and take them off the street as part of a primary mission to protect the public in general, but they are not obligated to stop every bad thing from happening as soon as possible. Unfortunately I'm sure I'm in a very small minority with that view today. It's just part of the ongoing decline away from personal responsibility we've seen happening for a long time...
    For your home: have curtains over your windows so no one can look in. Also turn off the lights when danger threatens. Have either cameras or dogs, preferably both to monitor outside of your house along with fencing. At night lock your gates.
    There is some wisdom in having a functioning gated community.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

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