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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    If people would understand that shotguns and rifles are different and that they are run differently they might have a light bulb moment.

    The world isn't made up of mag dumps and speed reloads.
    Geek Warlord
    Dungeons & Dragons & Deadlifts

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    TWOTU since May 2015

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Madison, Wisconsin
    "had the stock cut down to properly fit me"

    Fit of the gun to the shooter is critical. It doesn't matter if it's a revolver or an auto pistol or a shotgun or a rifle. The regular stocks on an M870 shotgun were too long for shorter operators with shorter arms. They couldn't mount the gun properly and so the recoil beat the hell out of them.

    I'm 6 ft 4 and 240 so a regular stock fit me okay but the stock on my personal M870 is a little shorter than standard. I also have express sights on my gun. I personally always shot better with express sights or rifle sights or aperture sights than I did with just a bead sight. I have very little experience with an RDS on a shotgun.

    I tried without success to get my PD to shorten the stocks on the M870 and get rifle sights. Then in 2002 we got AR pattern rifles and never looked back.
    "We should always try to do the right thing and the moral thing and the legal thing, but first we should do the SMART thing."
    --John S. Farnam
    Defense Training International

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    NW Florida
    I'd add on that people who know nothing about shotguns tried to train others and tried to make the shotgun a rifle. If your entire idea about a shotgun is that it should handle like a rifle then you'll of course think an actual rifle is a better choice.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    The GCA 1968-mandated disconnect makes the pump shotgun more complex than it needs to be. Fortunately, Adler is importing a lever action .12 gauge, too. Hopefully it will be an excellent weapon, too.
    The 2cd Amendment has no technological cut off date!
    The extermination of Islam before my dhimmitude!
    8-10-3 forever!
    The operative formerly known as Pug Puppy

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2014
    I think what initially caused a stray is lack of a good way to carry spare ammo. I still carry a shotgun, and a dump pouch on my duty belt. If I bail out with the shotgun I usually dump the 5 shot box of buckshot in there if I remember to. The shotgun and the rifle are very different animals. The decline in popularity has to do with the lack of understanding the differences. I carry a sig 716 as a patrol rifle and as a mostly rural department it works. If we are dealing with something in town or in a more close quarter environment I always go to the shotgun. Way out in the boonies I prefer the 716. I am literally the only one on my shift that still packs a shotgun, but I'm also the only one on my shift that slings a .308 I guess I'm just different.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Beyond The Wall
    The spare ammo carry is not such a big deal. A leather or nylon pouch on the belt worked fine. It is a mistake to think the shotgun are sustained fire weapons. They aren't they are deployed...destroy their target and reloaded if necessary to destroy another. Think of a pistol fight...then given prior warning. You take a SHOTGUN with you because in that envelope of use it does things better than a drawn pistol and defeats the rifle in speed of deployment and destructive power with minimal number of shots fired
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    A lot has changed in the last several decades, but some things have not. My opinion, as an outsider looking in, is that the shift away from shotguns in law enforcement is in part based on "out with the old, in with the new" thinking. The fast and flat shooting 5.56 carbine is in relative terms new. The 12ga shotty is grandpa's gun. Just my free opinion, but I think the shotgun suffers from a gray whiskers image.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by jlwilliams View Post
    The 12ga shotty is grandpa's gun. Just my free opinion, but I think the shotgun suffers from a gray whiskers image.

    Well, got gray whiskers, and I am a grandpa. So yep, this is grandpa's gun.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I rode the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer (as modified)

    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    Vale et omnia quae.


  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    I can keep anything that I want next to my bed -- that includes belt fed - I keep a 7 shot 870 for bumps that might be in the house or are close outside. AND an AK-47. The AK goes bang every time. The longest unobstructed shot from my house is a little over 200 yards and I am more than minute of a man at that distance. The AK will kill vehicles with reasonable certainty -- not as good as my M1-A, but close.

    I still love the sound of the 870 getting racked. I do not care if it scares bad guys -- it gives me a wake-up adrenaline rush.


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