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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,180
    Coming in hot, looking for work. Security first. That means leaving the wounded until the scene is secure, or establishing a safe route out, or extraction under fire. Once assets are in place we'll assist as able with triage and field treatment. That will likely be limited to TQs, CPR, pressure, wound packing, and helping hump the injured to the extraction point.
    Incidents will generally follow ICS, but necessity trumps protocol. If I'm first onscene the joint command BS can wait for stripes or bars.



    P.S.: Apropos of nothing at all, I am suddenly reminded of the fact that modern structures--office buildings and such--offer poor cover and little concealment. Thin steel studs and sheetrock do not a safe room make. To me most structures are a trap with lousy visibility and worse choices.
    Last edited by Papa; 08-26-2019 at 04:57 PM.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "Can I move?...I'm better when I move."

    1, 1, 11. And a wakeup.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    5,432
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    LEOs on the forum. Can you provide an outline of what you are doing while this may be taking place? Like how do you approach, do you take over any treatment, do you help facilitate any activities with EMS?
    I'm a supervisor who hates being in the station. That puts me out bouncing off curbs, and not assigned to normal calls. That puts me early or first on hot calls. So, I'm going in with whatever I've got handy to deal with the active threat. I'll claim the channel and run the hunt off of it. The perimeter and EMS can be taken by someone else on another frequency. I have no interest whatsoever in medical work.

    Or, I was busy with something and I arrive late to the party. I define a collection point for EMS and let the first fire CPT organize it how he wants. I grab what guns I can and two chili-cooking gods of the red truck. We grab a metric ton of bandages (every Sergeant has a Alice Medium filled with Israeli bandages in the trunk) and the 4-6 of us go in to the warm zone. Cops cover, meds do triage, order self- and victim assisting victim evac to the collection point. They treat who they can with what we brought. When we're out of goodies, we scoop and run with someone chosen by the paramedics. Out to th collection point, grab what new supplies we can, and back in, probably with the same medics. (Fire only has so many helmets and vests from us.)

    But until the bad guy is toast and a secondary search confirms it, the cops are escorts for the medic crews. Not treating anyone. Lets change it from a shooter to a plane crash. Now, after PD establishes a functional perimeter and secures roads for evacs, we turn into slave labor for the FD. Same supply of trauma bags and IFAKs, but we go in and act as IV poles or bandage applicators or whatever else FD is asking for.
    __________

    "To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Lower Golden State
    Posts
    154
    Well, at the other end of the spectrum, we CERTS are trained in BASIC triage, BASIC first aid, and BASIC transport-of-wounded. Those of us that live out here in rural have extended our training to more advanced techniques, and have been welcomed to sit in on EMS/FD classes. Pretty vital subject, especially if help might be 30 minutes away. First I've read about the 9 line...will fold that into the tool box, Thanks.
    Community Emergency Response Team

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Third Coast
    Posts
    4,242
    The place you will see mass casualty most often in LEO is large accidents. Speed limits around here are usually 75MPH (which means 85-90). When cars kiss (lots of oilfield traffic with f250/350 loaded with 5-6 guys each) you get lots of carnage.

    Response is not so different from active shooter really in the steps: A.S. = active shooter C.A. = car accident

    1. Stop the killing (A.S.) secure scene safety/ stop or divert traffic (C.A.)
    2. Stop the Dying/triage apply medical/ escort or call in med teams (A.S.) assess/treat the injured (C.A.)
    3. Extract to Medical (A.S.) help extract/load the bus (C.A.)

    During assess/treat you are on the horn advising how many buses you need , extraction equipment from FD ( heres where the fubar and sledge you carry in your G-ride can do a ton of good besides hitting doors watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vLDCJk3wNk for a great example, cars arent any tougher ), whether a helo is needed (and where we will land them) and brief on most injured (burns, amputations, etc.)

    keep a cool head, ignore the screams, and do the job.

    in fact after watching the video , watch the others they post as it is a great skillset and they take training seriously by trying to make the problem more difficult to solve.
    Last edited by coastalcop; 08-27-2019 at 06:25 AM.
    NEVER CONFUSE GETTING LUCKY WITH GOOD TACTICS (unless you are at the bar)

    I'm not in the business of Losing

    A stab to the taint beats most of the mystical bullshit, most of the time

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,180
    Quote Originally Posted by coastalcop View Post
    keep a cool head, ignore the screams, and do the job.
    There it is.

    Words to live and fight by.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "Can I move?...I'm better when I move."

    1, 1, 11. And a wakeup.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    9,423
    Glad you guys weighed in, I was beginning to wonder if I was wasting my time writing all that.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,180
    Hey, when seconds count, we're only minutes away.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "Can I move?...I'm better when I move."

    1, 1, 11. And a wakeup.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    274
    Not wasted at all. Excellent thread and great information.

    I worked Fire/EMS for a couple of years before the cop career. Your info and that provided by Papa, Sam, and Coastal is right on.

    Having been retired for a few years now, I admit I have not kept this stuff as fresh as it should be. I carry a TQ, have GSW kits under the front seats of my cars and bigger kits in trunks and such; but the focused thought-training/review on triage and movement through a mass casualty incident in a role other than a Hunter/Killer has been sorely lacking on my part.

    Thank you for the review and reminder.
    VIRES HONOR VIRTUS FIDES

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Texas Gulf Coast
    Posts
    632
    A cogent analysis, as displayed in this thread, is definitely not a waste of your time to produce, despite the lack of intelligent responses which can make it seem so.

    As just a regular guy, my medical and rescue experience has been in industrial settings, but only with one injury at a time. I re-read this thread tonight to imagine how to manage a mass casualty event. As I walked into my neighborhood barbecue joint tonight, I scanned the restaurant as if needing to perform triage and wound care to the dozen+ diners - after eliminating the threats.

    The 9-line medevac report, as modified for civilian applications, is something I will add to my thought process, with copies in the vehicle and home aid kits.
    Lee

    You alone are to be feared. Who can stand before you when you are angry? From Heaven you pronounce your Judgement, and the land feared and was quiet when you, O God, rose up to Judge, to save all the afflicted of the land.

    Psalm 76:7-9

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    9,423
    That's a good point. You can mentally game this stuff out in the same way you game a shooter scenario. Look around, see who is there and where, what can be used to improvise dressings and TQs, and just imagine the scene.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

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