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  1. #1
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    Default GREAT ARTICLE BY ABERNETHY ON MARTIAL ARTS TRAINING

    https://www.iainabernethy.co.uk/article/what-tma-can-learn-mma

    It is my view that traditional martial artists would do well emulate their MMA counterparts in this regard too and to ensure that physical conditioning and hard training are par for the course.


    Having talked about the areas were traditionalists would do well to emulate MMA practitioners, we should probably quickly touch on the other side of things.


    Low level MMA practitioners generally don’t spend enough time developing technique to the level traditionalists do. There is frequently an almost obsessive level of detail when it comes to traditional martial arts that begins with the very first class. A lot of people starting MMA simply want to get “stuck in” and some poorer gyms cater to that.


    Without strong foundations, it’s impossible to build to a great height. Poor quality MMA practitioners sometimes limit the level they can reach through poor quality foundations. Traditionalists often limit their level by spending all the time on the foundations and never building upward.


    Traditionalists also tend to place a greater emphasis on humility and hence are less prone to some of the more aggressive and arrogant attitudes we see in some quarters of the MMA world. The infusion of desirable character traits into training is therefore something that could be of benefit.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #2
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    As usual, Iain knocks it out of the park. I nodded my head in agreement throughout the article.

    One thing I appreciate about Iain's material is that it's applicable to all students of violence, not just Karate people. The ideas in this article apply perfectly to the study of the gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    https://www.iainabernethy.co.uk/article/what-tma-can-learn-mma

    It is my view that traditional martial artists would do well emulate their MMA counterparts in this regard too and to ensure that physical conditioning and hard training are par for the course.

    YES! I'm stupefied by the number of fat TMA instructors.


    Without strong foundations, it’s impossible to build to a great height. Poor quality MMA practitioners sometimes limit the level they can reach through poor quality foundations. Traditionalists often limit their level by spending all the time on the foundations and never building upward.

    There's a saying about a particular Karate system that they "create the best white belts in the world". I have found this to generally be true...they perform what I call "kindergarten karate" at an extremely high level. Unfortunately that seems to be the limit of growth.
    Brent Yamamoto
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  3. #3
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    Excellent
    I am in a sunny place full of shady people

  4. #4
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    There's a saying about a particular Karate system that they "create the best white belts in the world". I have found this to generally be true...they perform what I call "kindergarten karate" at an extremely high level. Unfortunately that seems to be the limit of growth.



    The same can be said for shooting schools too. Most never progress beyond the basics. Mastering the basics will serve you well, but mastering the basics is like mentioned above kind of like being an awesome white belt. At some point you progress and begin applying those basics in more complex and chaotic situations.

    As an example...Everyone can move their feet and point at something. We all do that every day. Yet FEW teach shooting on the move competently and when they do the movement is almost taught as a parlor trick or novelty, or just another position to shoot from like shooting from kneeling or shooting from prone instead of shooting WHILE TRYING TO KEEP FROM GETTING SHOT. The reason is that most of those teaching it have not mastered it (if even been exposed to it) and therefore do not feel comfortable teaching it. They are comfortable teaching "white belt skills"...not so much black belt level skills.
    Last edited by Randy Harris; 08-22-2019 at 09:13 AM.
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  5. #5
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    Exactly.

    And while it is true that advanced technique is often simply fundamental done extremely well, There is a big difference between someone who truly understands the fundamentals and someone who only has a shallow understanding.

    I have known many who have been training 20 years or more. Most of them are really good white belts.
    Brent Yamamoto
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  6. #6
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    I believe point one-Mixing Martial Arts, Fighting and Self Defence into one pot is why most Karate quit. The cannot see a clear goal/plan to the training and because they are discouraged from asking to many questions at the start, they simply try and wing it trying to get to grips with really 3 types of fighting at the same time.

    Close to a competition a couple of the classes will be set aside to practice sparring. With only the barest of instruction and strategy, basically Block with the Front Hand and Counter with the Back Hand.

    Your student that is a natural athlete will excel in this environment using his speed and superior hand eye coordination to his advantage, without needing to add anything more to the mix, being good at "fighting" without really trying.

    Then it would suddenly be time to focus on the basics again to prepare for the next Grading. The only instructions being that the instructor wants to see strong and focused techniques.

    Then again some nights will be set aside for "Self Defence Techniques.

    In all 3 cases there is no obvious carry over/something to be learned in each realm that the student can see that can help him to improve his other "Two Styles", seeing no point to the training.

    And this is one of the main reasons Martial Artists gets drawn to MMA, The Live Experience. After learning an Arm-bar for example the student is able to apply it, after only a short space of time, against a Fully Resisting Opponent. Getting rewarded for all, his hard work and more importantly experiencing a sense of achievement-Seeing a point to the training.

    I think the solution is twofold. First the Dojo should either focus on Competition/Traditional Training because their is simply not enough time to focus on both. If you try and train both you end up only scratching the surface of both.

    If the focus is on Effective Karate the training should be broken into smaller pieces, using smaller Solo Drills that concentrates on one/two aspects of the Bunkai. Then working with a partner executing to Man Sets to get a life feel of the techniques before attempting to use the techniques in Randori type of Sparring working against some resistance.

    This gives the student short training goals to achieve between Gradings, a way to messure progress and allows him to get a glims at the bigger picture-The goal plan behind the training.

    A simple way to ensure that people work hard enough is to have less talking and more moving. Their is of course times that the training needs to be slowed down, teaching/demonstrating new techniques or correcting techniques. But it is all to easy to fall into the trap of discussing technique and the training turning into a debate.

    It can be tough for the instructor running a small Dojo with fewer classes, there being a mix of younger and older students to ensure that everybody works hard enough and enjoys the training. If every class is intense with hard Sparring and tough conditioning he will lose the older students. On the other hand if he always teaches at a slightly slower pace the younger guys grow bored.

    That is way it is important the the instructor manages his classes, by picking up on the energy levels of all his students. Even working in Active Rest Days if he senses that the energy is low in class on that particular day. In the process not alienating half of his students and able to keep his doors open.

    OSSU!
    Elfie
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  7. #7
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    The article mentions Iain’s Martial Map podcast he did some years back. I have posted it once or twice here, I think it’s worth sharing again.

    https://iainabernethy.co.uk/content/...ree-audio-book

    In a nut shell, it discusses how martial Arts, self protection, and fighting are different things. They overlap, but are different. I think it’s an excellent method to frame the way you think about your training, building clarity for what you’re doing and why you’re doing it. It’s a practical way to approach training and make better use of your time.
    Last edited by Brent Yamamoto; 08-22-2019 at 09:14 PM.
    Brent Yamamoto
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  8. #8
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    I wonder how much of it has to do with the interaction between instructors and students. If poor students lead to poor instructors and vice versa. Without each side pushing each other to be their best I could easily see how standards drop to basic stuff. Without a student base with command of the basics and the will to push further why would an instructor waste the time for the tiny minority of people that push the envelope.

    If I remember right Gabe has said he has material he could teach but very few people are interested and/or have the skill set to think about it.

    A lot of people only want sexy mag dumps.

    A lot of people can't fathom learning anything where they don't fire a single round.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkface View Post
    I wonder how much of it has to do with the interaction between instructors and students. If poor students lead to poor instructors and vice versa. Without each side pushing each other to be their best I could easily see how standards drop to basic stuff. Without a student base with command of the basics and the will to push further why would an instructor waste the time for the tiny minority of people that push the envelope.
    There's a lot of different reasons. Sometimes more than one:

    * Being a "Sensei" means you're the big guy. This is attractive to individuals of a certain mindset.
    * Rent has to get paid.
    * There's more money in teaching kids than in teaching adults. Kids (usually) have mothers. Mothers like words like "self discipline" and "character building". Mothers don't like black eyes. Mothers don't like to hear "Then you break his $BONE".
    * (edited to add) There are people--both instructors and students--that confuse "exercise" with "martial arts". Cardio Kickboxing IS NOT A MARTIAL ART.
    * Many adults...they don't want to hear "And then you break his $BONE" either. They aren't there to actually *fight*, they are there to learn the magic incantations to make the bad guy select someone else.
    * Many instructors don't have the understanding to know their own limits. They take what they get from *their* instructors as received wisdom, and then at *best* try to repeat it faithfully. This is a generational game of "telephone".
    * Many martial arts have been *deliberately* watered down. Any instructor coming out of China post Mao is very likely teaching a *deliberately* weakened version of whatever art they're in. The communist government *deliberately* did this.
    * So did some of the Japanese martial arts--maybe not from the government, but from the pervasive pacifism that engulfed the Japanese after we nuked two of their cities.
    * A lot of people these days *want* competitive martial arts. Many men *long* for and *enjoy* combat, even the sort of ersatz combat that is MMA, boxing, judo or whatever. Capitalism serves markets, not ideals.
    * There is significant overlap between what works in competition and what works in a real fight. Sometimes it's obvious what you don't do (speed holsters and rows of magazines). Other times it's not so obvious, and sometimes what works in one type of combat (Navy SEALS) is...less than optimal for other types of combat (Police arresting a out of control 14 year old). It is very difficult, both intellectually and emotionally for...certain kinds of instructors to get this. This is true both for "McDojo" instructors, and for "Hard Core Operators".
    * There is a big space between training techniques in the mirror, low speed "training" with a training partner and various levels of randori/focus sparring/sparring/controlled fighting and full on combat. Some schools do this better than others, and some instructors just suck at it. Some students suck at it.

    I don't think that there is a "Poor students lead to poor instructors" feedback loop going on. I think there may be "students don't have the ability to tell an instructor teaching good material from an instructor teaching bad material" problem, but when you have (hypothetically) a "retired" Navy Seal, a LAPD Swat guy and a retired FBI firearms instructor, who is really qualified to judge who's material is "better"? Me? I'm just a former Marine, and not even a Grunt at that. My "Combat Arms" experience is early 1990s National Guard Field Artillery *JEEP DRIVER*. I'm about as high speed low drag as that jeep I drove, so I just have my intellect (and I don't exactly design rockets in my space time, right?).
    Last edited by BillyOblivion; 08-22-2019 at 09:00 PM. Reason: Forgot something.

  10. #10
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    Perhaps the single biggest problem with all martial disciplines is understanding context.

    Military vs law enforcement vs civilians for example. Competition vs real world. Fighting to a conclusion (a knock out or a tap or death) vs fighting to flee. Breaking someone vs protecting yourself while not hurting the other person.

    Traditionalist often have the “sensei says” problem. Anything sensei says is gospel, not to be questioned, any deviation from what sensei said is heresy. Poor teachers will doom most of their students to be poor as well.

    MMA types are at least in shape and pressure test constantly. This is excellent. I find a lot of them do not understand context though.

    And almost everyone is prone to the problem of only having a hammer when not every problem is a nail.
    Brent Yamamoto
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