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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Florida
    Posts
    759
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    UPDATE FROM OUR FRIENDS AT BLACK ACES

    Hi Gabe, Eric from Black Aces Tactical here. Just a quick note about the ATF letter. No one went to the ATF and asked permission about the folders. It was only recently that the ATF has decided to change their view on folding braces for firearm/other weapons and August 2018 we were approached. Through our attorneys, Black Aces Tactical has been working with the ATF to formulate an acceptable solution over the 12 months, and the end result is the letter stating that the customers are to configure their weapons to the 2014 approval letter.

    Additionally, this is and will affect a multitude of weapons. The assistant director of the ATF has stated that all in the industry will receive equal treatment.


    So there it is. Options are to

    1). Add a 16" length barrel or add a breacher of 2" to your barrel - we will see about the breacher and the service at the store.
    2). Permanently secure the brace into an open position - gotta see your gunsmith or machinist for that...out of our wheel house.
    3). Change the brace to a fixed brace such as what we have for the Tac-series from SB Tactical and configured by us in the Pointman series.

    And if you have ANY weapon with a folding stock, make sure it fits within the characteristics.
    Or, install the folding brace you already have on an AOW, which is my plan.

    -- ML

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Manistee MI
    Posts
    1,360
    From my original understanding of this new made up rule, is that this new way of measuring is for firearms and pistols, not rifles. I believe atf still measures a rifle in the longest configuration., But they are now measuring the others in the folder/shortest configuration.

    Sent from my moto e5 (XT1920DL) using Tapatalk
    Abortion is sacrificing your child on the alter of convenience....Adrian Rogers
    Soli Deo Gloria

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    9,957
    In all my years of shooting, training, and teaching, I've seen the ATF actually out measuring weapons exactly zero times.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  4. #54
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    45,668
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    In all my years of shooting, training, and teaching, I've seen the ATF actually out measuring weapons exactly zero times.

    Maybe someone should write a letter to the ATF for clarification?
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    In all my years of shooting, training, and teaching, I've seen the ATF actually out measuring weapons exactly zero times.
    How many weapons have police departments taken "for safe keeping" or "evaluation" outside of being found alongside an actual crime? How many have been charged with regulation violations are at least lost their weapons?

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    In all my years of shooting, training, and teaching, I've seen the ATF actually out measuring weapons exactly zero times.
    It happened in my state.

    There was an out of state FFL that didn't know how to handle the transfer of non NFA "others" that were being made in my state to their state. They contacted the ATF and they scooped up a number of weapons that were already sold to customers. And the ATF rule went from measuring a a weapon with a folding brace unfolded for OAL, to measuring it folded for OAL. But an adjustable non folding brace still gets measured fully extended for OAL.

    I cannot wait to retire and move from this god forsaken place.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    9,957
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyrfytr998 View Post
    It happened in my state. They contacted the ATF.
    Ok so no, it didnt happen in your state. As above someone asked permission and they swooped in. They didnt randomly show up measuring people's stuff. This is just another case of "mother may I"
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    1,070
    My limited experience on this (juror a few times) is that weapons laws are add ons after an arrest. “Now that I’ve arrested you for armed robbery, let me check out these guns...”. Gee, filed the serial number off that pistol, there’s a charge for that. Hey, that’s a weird looking short shotgun, better have my ATF buddy see if we can make something stick for that.

    No body is cruising around with a ruler, what would be the probable cause?

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    The Big Northeastern NPE
    Posts
    377
    Which begs the question:

    If you use a Tac-14 with a folding stock (or other grey-area weapon) in a good defensive shooting, will the local authorities make an issue of it?

    Here in NY, the answer is likely yes, so I've stayed with the birdshead grip. Where you live, you may come to a different conclusion.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    9,957
    Come on guys...….. Filter this stuff through a brain cell. Read your local laws and existing ATF regulations, then abide by them to the best of your ability. If you do something that is intentionally not kosher in your AO you deserve the result you get.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

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