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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    486
    I'll toss in some recommended reading.

    1. On War, by Carl von Clausewitz. Get the Michael Howard & Peter Paret translation, the others are trash. Read Books 1, 2, and 8. And the commentaries on them. The rest you can ignore unless you want to be a Napoleonic staff officer. This is the foundation of Grand Strategy.

    2. The Campaigns of Napoleon, by David Chandler. This is the best one-volume study of one of the greatest of all generals, a master of warfare. Pay attention to the speed of action of Napoleon's mind, and of his armies. The OODA loop is much older than people realize.

    3. Some Principles of Maritime Strategy, by Sir Julian Corbett. This is the best one-volume work on naval strategy.

    4. Epee 2.5, by Johan Harmenberg. Harmenberg won an Olympic Gold medal in epee, mostly by revolutionizing the sport. This is a masterpiece on individual fighting...in particular, the concept of fighting your way, not your opponent's. Americans can be duped into fighting with one hand tied behind their back "to make it fair". A real fight is not fair.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
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    44,639
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike OTDP View Post
    I'll toss in some recommended reading.

    1. On War, by Carl von Clausewitz. Get the Michael Howard & Peter Paret translation, the others are trash. Read Books 1, 2, and 8. And the commentaries on them. The rest you can ignore unless you want to be a Napoleonic staff officer. This is the foundation of Grand Strategy.

    2. The Campaigns of Napoleon, by David Chandler. This is the best one-volume study of one of the greatest of all generals, a master of warfare. Pay attention to the speed of action of Napoleon's mind, and of his armies. The OODA loop is much older than people realize.

    3. Some Principles of Maritime Strategy, by Sir Julian Corbett. This is the best one-volume work on naval strategy.

    4. Epee 2.5, by Johan Harmenberg. Harmenberg won an Olympic Gold medal in epee, mostly by revolutionizing the sport. This is a masterpiece on individual fighting...in particular, the concept of fighting your way, not your opponent's. Americans can be duped into fighting with one hand tied behind their back "to make it fair". A real fight is not fair.
    Pretty good. I would avoid most of the modern "fear based" writings that assert violence is bad and killing is unnatural and such.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Same is true of lifting and getting strong. As a guy whose knees, shoulder and various other parts are damaged and provide continuous reminders of same, I give this gratuitious advice:
    As someone in a similar boat, LMFTFY:
    Start now. Start slowly and INTELLIGENTLY. LEARN.. Get stronger. Stay stronger. And don't ever stop.
    Interesting rabbit hole for another thread: https://www.ted.com/talks/david_epst...etter_stronger

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,106
    Perfect.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "Can I move?...I'm better when I move."

    1, 2, 11. And a wakeup.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    556
    Just for a deeper dive.
    What about non Asian martial arts? Same original questions.
    Be alert, stand firm in the faith, act like a man, be strong. Your every action must be done with love.

    “Adversity introduces a man to himself.”

  6. #36
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    Beyond The Wall
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    Quote Originally Posted by psalms23dad View Post
    Just for a deeper dive.
    What about non Asian martial arts? Same original questions.
    Same in my opinion. Sadly, the vast majority of western systems became sporterized around the turn of the 20th century. And all the marketing you will hear about WW2 Combatives and Krav Maga is simply marketing. Both are simplified versions of Karate/Jujitsu.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    5,453
    Quote Originally Posted by psalms23dad View Post
    Just for a deeper dive.
    What about non Asian martial arts? Same original questions.
    Those of you who train with us, who follow this forum and put these ideas into practice...you are already training in a Western martial art.

    The one truly American martial art: Gunfighting.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

    Upcoming classes:

    Advanced Close Range Gunfighting - Nov 2-3 Mapleton, OR

  8. #38
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Yamamoto View Post
    Those of you who train with us, who follow this forum and put these ideas into practice...you are already training in a Western martial art.

    The one truly American martial art: Gunfighting.
    Exactly.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    Same in my opinion. Sadly, the vast majority of western systems became sporterized around the turn of the 20th century. And all the marketing you will hear about WW2 Combatives and Krav Maga is simply marketing. Both are simplified versions of Karate/Jujitsu.
    There's been a resurgence in interest in "Western Martial Arts" or "Historical European Martial Arts" over the last 20-30 years. People have been unearthing original source documents and trying to re-create these arts. Many of them are weapons based, and at some layer of analysis unsuitable for our age. One example is "I.33" so named because that's what the catalog number of the manuscript is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Armouries_Ms._I.33. Other people are working on rebuilding the Viking/Norse/Icelandic martial arts https://www.vikingmartialarts.com/. Note here they explicitly draw the distinction between "Combat Glima" and "Sport Glima". These are purportedly based on traditions and documents. English sword fighting (Silver et. al) and etc.

    One of the systems I study was written down somewhere around 1400 by a guy named Fiore Furlano de Cividale d'Austria, delli Liberi da Premariacco or "Fiore De Liberi". The book is called "Fior di Battaglia". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiore_dei_Liberi. This and I.33 are part of the lineage that lead to modern sport fencing.

    Because the world is what it is, and at the rank I currently hold, I am mostly studying sword work, grappling and defenses against the dagger (more a rondel). The "master" of the school tries really, really hard to walk that line between sport and real combatives. It's hard to test yourself (especially with sword in armor) safely, so sparring and tournaments have to have limits. Some things we talk about--when doing certain moves in "real life" you would stomp on the flat of the sword if you could, while in the sala we don't for safety reasons. The more senior students will put on full kit--chain and plate mail with steel helmets and hit each other fairly hard with dull (but otherwise real) swords.

    You asked a couple pages back about what would be "combatively realistic for guys that are not quite like Judd Reid?".

    The Rock Mountain Sword Play Guild has a fairly demanding test for Scholar--you have to demonstrate a moderate level of fitness (50 good pushups, 50 situps, 50 squats) at the start of the skills portion of the test--which last time lasted 6 hours to get 6 people tested. There is (at a different time) a 2-3 hour essay test to demonstrate knowledge, and then there is a combatives test (on it's own day, wih spectators).

    The first part of the combatives test is a 5 minute "dagger gauntlet". Everyone else who knows how to do this lines up and in series throws one of three dagger strikes. More senior students will perform more aggressive attacks while the more junior just launch a single attack. The candidate must then handle the attacks--disarm etc. without excessive force (e.g. injuring the attacker).

    The second part of this portion is sword (again, dull blades) fight with a full Scholar wearing only padded jackets, steel helmets and gloves. Note that in this school "sword fights" often wind up with someone getting "disarmed" and closing to grappling distance.

    Again, it's probably not as good as a *good* karate/jujitsu teacher for getting in a punchup, but there is very much the focus on structure and balance and on moving with the hips etc--just like the Japanese and (IME) Escrima folks do.


    Fiore limited his work to techniques that both in and out of armor, though he notes at points that some techniques are *safer* when done armored.

    In the "The more things change" category he notes that there are two types of grappling (abrazare)--for fun and to the death. He also advises the young noble (this is the target audience of the manuscript) to learn wrestling from the peasants--because they cheat.

    This probably isn't the best martial art to study for getting in altercations, but it's a *really* good one for building controlled aggression, and for practice in taking blows and working through them.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by psalms23dad View Post
    Just for a deeper dive.
    What about non Asian martial arts? Same original questions.
    Any serious boxing gym, a real mma fighting gym, serious bjj dojo, any wrestling gym headed by NCAA champion wrestlers (likely found in MMA gyms).

    If you're talking about true American martial arts, the Suarez group and Craig Douglas and Tim Kennedy are a short list of people teaching modern integrated combatives with a pedigree of scalp taking.
    There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.
    ~Ernest Hemingway

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