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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Prescott
    Posts
    11
    Going back to original posting though a 14.5" barrel 6.5 is not going to have effective velocity past 700yds for people. I was using prairie dogs as a reference point for size not as an acceptable thing for hunting. 6.5 suffers from even greater loss of barrel length than a .223/556 because of powder burn rates and efficiency of the catridge was never optimized for that barrel length

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    5,579
    I would agree that if one wants to go with 6.5 Creed, a short barrel makes little sense. IMO the attractive attributes of that caliber come from a longer barrel. I would probably go 18 or 20...I know longer is better for ballistic performance but balancing handling attributes, etc. I'd stick with 18 or 20.

    If one wants something shorter, IMO 6.5 Grendel is a better choice. I know Yondering was doing some great work with a 12.5.
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  3. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South-Central Idaho
    Posts
    3,092
    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Yamamoto View Post
    I would agree that if one wants to go with 6.5 Creed, a short barrel makes little sense. IMO the attractive attributes of that caliber come from a longer barrel. I would probably go 18 or 20...I know longer is better for ballistic performance but balancing handling attributes, etc. I'd stick with 18 or 20.

    If one wants something shorter, IMO 6.5 Grendel is a better choice. I know Yondering was doing some great work with a 12.5.

    Yondering made me a 12.5" Grendel as well. Great little unit.
    I have no interest n a short Creedmoor. 18-20” is what I’m after for this one.


    As to the 6.5 CM vs 243 question...

    Better Bullets
    Better Barrel life

    As to the 6.5 CM vs .308...

    Better Ballistics
    Less Recoil

    IMO, 6.5 Creedmoor is a "best of both" sort of answer to the ".243 vs 308" question (as is 7mm-08). And, yes, .308 or 243 would do the job just fine as well. But I'm at the point in life where I can buy what I want so I do.

    If we all start only buying guns that we really need and that fill some otherwise un-fillable, unique, niche the industry is doomed. LOL

    Must have guns for a civilian not living in Tactical FantasyLand?

    RMR Glock
    Seacamp
    Stakeout or Pointman
    Shotgun and/or Bolt Action Rifle in about any caliber for hunting
    Ruger Charger with a folding brace

    And, of course, a couple of safes full of AR-15s, AR-10s and long-range precision rifles....you know...for the zombies!
    Last edited by DogDoc; 10-18-2019 at 07:36 AM.
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  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    588
    I pulled together some short barrel data from the 65grendel.com site.
    These are actual numbers from various members testing. I am a Grendel fan and even with a short barrel it's performance is very good. The uppers will work on any AR15 size lower and with a quality barrel will shoot sub MOA.


    Hornady 123g SST (0.510 G1, 0.462 G1 Actual)

    - 12.5" barrels
    - 2252 BA Hanson (Suppressed, 74F, 73%, 29.9, 1030')
    - 2250 Lilja
    - 2263 Faxon GB

    Hornady 123g ELD (0.506 G1 @ 2512, 0.493 G1 @ 2232, 0.481 G1 @ 1953)

    - 10.5"
    - 2210 X-Caliber

    - 12.5" barrels
    - 2225 BA Hanson (Suppressed, 74F, 73%, 29.9, 1030')
    - 2217 Faxon GB

    Federal Fusion 120g (0.340 G1)
    - 12.5"
    - 2323 BA Hanson (Suppressed, 74F, 73%, 29.9, 1030')

    DavidFortier's Oehler Chronograph data:

    AlexanderArms 12.5 inch 6.5mm Grendel
    AlexanderArms 100 grain Berger OTM 2470
    AlexanderArms 123 grain Scenar OTM 2330
    Velocity figures are 10 shot averages recorded on an Oehler 35P placed 12 feet from the muzzle 1,030 feet above Sea Level at an ambient temperature of 30 degrees F.

    12”PSA SS with LabRadar.
    123gr Hornady American Gunner bulk HPBT = 2201 FPS ave with SD of 14.7
    123gr Hornady ELD-M Black = 2265 FPS ave with SD of 13.2
    123gr Hornady Custom SST Factory= 2277 ave with SD of 11.8
    Last edited by babue; 10-17-2019 at 05:55 PM. Reason: formatting

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Southeast United States
    Posts
    727
    Quote Originally Posted by DogDoc View Post
    Yondering made me a 12.5" Grendel as well. Great little unit.

    As to the 6.5 CM vs 243 question...

    Better Bullets
    Better Barrel life

    As to the 6.5 CM vs .308...

    Better Ballistics
    Less Recoil

    IMO, 6.5 Creedmoor is a "best of both" sort of answer to the ".243 vs 308" question (as is 7mm-08). And, yes, .308 or 243 would do the job just fine as well. But I'm at the point in life where I can buy what I want so I do.

    If we all start only buying guns that we really need and that fill some otherwise un-fillable, unique, niche the industry is doomed. LOL

    Must have guns for a civilian not living in Tactical FantasyLand?

    RMR Glock
    Seacamp
    Stakeout or Pointman
    Shotgun and/or Bolt Action Rifle in about any caliber for hunting
    Ruger Charger with a folding brace

    And, of course, a couple of safes full of AR-15s, AR-10s and long-range precision rifles....you know...for the zombies!
    Dang it. I thought I had about everything I wanted, but you had to go and remind me of that little gem. Thank goodness for that sweet social security money ....
    Redneck Zen
    "Be careful what you get good at."

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Palmer, Alaska
    Posts
    7,004
    When someone wants a short (8-10”) .30 caliber rifle, .300 BLK is widely regarded as a better choice than .308 WIN. The same relationship appears to exist between 6.5 Grendel and 6.5 Creedmoor. The principal difference between the larger and smaller cartridges is case capacity. The more powder you put behind the bullet, the more velocity you gain. But you need barrel in which to burn that powder. If you combine a short barrel and lots of powder, you just get a fireball; no real velocity increase. It’s analogous to a car with lots of horsepower and no traction—it can’t make use of its power.

    If you really want a short barrel 6.5, go Grendel. The Creedmoor will just burn more powder outside of the barrel. You’ll have a heavier gun and lower capacity without seeing a meaningful gain over the Grendel.

    Peak velocity in the Creedmoor occurs around 22”. This means that a longer barrel is just unnecessary. I see no good reason for a 26” Creedmoor. Brent’s suggestion is solid—18-20” is ideal. The velocity increase from 18 to 20 is pretty slight, and the jump from 20 to 22 is even less. While I wouldn’t build a 16” gun, I can’t say that would be unreasonable.


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  7. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Southeast Florida
    Posts
    1,761
    When considering long-range practical applications, the first thing I think about is how flat the trajectory is, so that the margin of error is reduced when conditions are not perfect (no time to get a precise range, dial in exact adjustments, etc.) In other words, when engaging human targets in urgent situations, the flatter the trajectory the better the chances of a hit without a perfect hold. From what I've seen that's one of the benefits of 6.5 C over other options like .308.

    But on the topic of a longer barrel vs shorter gun, FWIW if anybody wants to spend the money the Desert Tech MDR plus an after-market 6.5 barrel is available right now and it would knock off about 10" compared to an AR-10 with the same barrel. I wish it were a bit cheaper but for whatever reason bullpups always demand a price premium so far. The K&M M17S is a little cheaper, but I have no idea how soon a 6.5 barrel might be available.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South-Central Idaho
    Posts
    3,092
    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Zen View Post
    Dang it. I thought I had about everything I wanted, but you had to go and remind me of that little gem. Thank goodness for that sweet social security money ....

    Here's the thread on the Charger Redneck.

    KAK Brace On A Ruger Charger

    It's wearing a 1-4 Scope nowadays. I'll probably put a 3-9 on it at some point. The tactical application with these sorts of things would be precise hits on very small points (eyeballs, kneecaps, etc...) so a little more magnification suits it. The real-world, civilian application of popping a rock chuck in the noggin benefits from magnification as well with my aging eyes.
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  9. #19
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    963
    My nephew has a PWS upper which is a tack driver, but we've only shot it out to 5-600 yards. I'm guessing it's at least twice the price of an Aero though.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South-Central Idaho
    Posts
    3,092
    Quote Originally Posted by khadga View Post
    My nephew has a PWS upper which is a tack driver, but we've only shot it out to 5-600 yards. I'm guessing it's at least twice the price of an Aero though.
    I've heard good things about the PWS Creedmoor. Thanks for the report. I have one of their 5.56 rifles in the herd and have no complaints.
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