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  1. #1
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    Default STRATEGIES AND TACTICS FOR COUNTERING THE ACTIVE SHOOTER

    I thought this bore the need for a new thread. In the discussion arising from PDWs and roles of weapons we had this great post from Coastalcop. My response below. This bears a great deal of discussion from the tribe.

    Quote Originally Posted by coastalcop View Post
    This seemed to shock them so I further explained " We are pushing towards the attack and moving towards the sound of gunfire , I turn the corner and see someone shooting into a classroom, so I shoot him. Any active attack event can be seen through this lense. Adding a long gun ONLY makes you more observable and deserving of attention in the threat matrix.
    And something that seems to never be addressed elsewhere is that your tactics for dealing with the active shooter with those dynamics in mind. Your tactics and methods must take that into consideration. Off duty and UC LE have always kept these things in mind and how to comport themselves to avoid a blue-on-blue event. It is always a risk.

    The thing I have always kept in mind is an analogy of the Lord Of The Rings theme when Frodo puts on the ring, Sauron and his minions can see him. It is a similar thing. You are invisible until you bring out the pistol. Then you are a part of the game and not just a spectator. So bring it into action...kill what needs to be killed...and become invisible again...or at least less visible. In active shooter events there is no capture...no holding bad guys at gun point...none of that. It is locate, close, and eliminate...then holster or hold at close SUL.

    What you want the LE to see is either the man and not the gun, or failing to provide that image, a clean cut, fit man that may possibly be off duty LE handling his weapon like a professional. There is never a second chance to make a first impression, and you will be judged by what you are doing at the moment of first visual.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #2
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    Im teaching today so not much time to post,

    but think of how the last couple of active shooters had dressed. Tac kit, etc. not tooo unlike good guy responders that threw on their plate carrier , so mis identification CAN happen, thankfully its rare but I couldnt for the life of me tell you what our local federal parks service police looks like.

    Our last hostage situation had about 75 LEO from various agencies respond, I knew about 25% of them, thankfully the event wasnt as time compressed as an active attack.

    Will write more later
    NEVER CONFUSE GETTING LUCKY WITH GOOD TACTICS (unless you are at the bar)

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  3. #3
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    Excellent...Thanks Coastal. Hopefully some other LE will comment as I know there are plenty here. Everyone wants to shoot the bad guy...but nobody wants to shoot a good guy by mistake...or get shot by a good guy.

    And to be honest...all those CCW heroes that some are concerned about...the reality is that when the first shots go off they will channel Ayoob and come up with a myriad of reasons they should not engage. I doubt we will be running into many of them.

    So that said...if we are seen by the good guys we want them to think...at first glance...that we are also good guys...members of their tribe so to speak. How do we do that?
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  4. #4
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    ...thankfully the event wasn't as time compressed as an active attack."

    This cannot be emphasized enough. It takes a cool head to run code, armor up, lock and load and start the hunt. First responders will be amped, psyched, and literally straining at the leash. Even in "the moderate stress of the training environment" bystanders/actors get run down, knocked down, hit with weapons. Doors get stuffed, furniture sent flying, and tangos get shot again and again until they hopefully have the sense to lie down. In the real thing, people are dying and there is little time for careful analysis and decisionmaking. No one is going to read your hat.

    Don't look like a bad guy. Don't act like a bad guy. And don't get in the way.
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  5. #5
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    Wasn't the movie house shooter in Colorado dressed in tac gear and some responders thought he was one of them when they saw him out side??

    This is something everyone who carries a gun should be thinking about and planning for. Good advice.
    I rather you hated me for who I am than love me for who I ain't!
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  6. #6
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    Some of this we have touched upon in the past though I don't remember how in depth it went. One of key things being to cause that moment of hesitation or doubt in the responding officers mind. Especially in areas where CCW is very common. I have heard our Sheriff talk about it at various times and how they can't go in and just blast everyone with a gun as there is a very high chance of a private citizen being present. Though they haven't given any detail about what their though process is as to how they identify them as far as I know.

    Regardless anyone there before the police arrive shouldn't get tunnel vision and plan on imminent police arrival and have a plan.

    It also helps to not be dressed like a slob or a thug. Good guys already have a range of unofficial uniforms and styles of dress.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragsbo View Post
    Wasn't the movie house shooter in Colorado dressed in tac gear and some responders thought he was one of them when they saw him out side??
    This is something everyone who carries a gun should be thinking about and planning for. Good advice.
    I know the guy (Jason Oviatt) who is credited with arresting the shooter, so yesterday I asked him (we have a martial arts class together).

    Yeah, he was wearing a "tactical vest", military style helmet and gasmask, "black" windbreaker and black pants.

    He initially thought the guy was a cop, and one of the other policemen nearby was wondering "how did swat get here so fast" before Jason realized something was wrong.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVOZnlCI2xE

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    ...thankfully the event wasn't as time compressed as an active attack."

    This cannot be emphasized enough. It takes a cool head to run code, armor up, lock and load and start the hunt. First responders will be amped, psyched, and literally straining at the leash. Even in "the moderate stress of the training environment" bystanders/actors get run down, knocked down, hit with weapons. Doors get stuffed, furniture sent flying, and tangos get shot again and again until they hopefully have the sense to lie down. In the real thing, people are dying and there is little time for careful analysis and decisionmaking. No one is going to read your hat.

    Don't look like a bad guy. Don't act like a bad guy. And don't get in the way.

    ************************************

    Papa has it 100%, and has just described hundreds of training days that all of us .gov, .mil, and LEO have run through. Those of us that came to this calling for the right reasons WANT to eat. We deal with ALL OF THE CRAP so we can be in the right place at the right time to get eat. The K-9 tracks so he gets to bite, we work in the hope that the balloon goes up and we are close enough to make a difference.

    The boss has described this many times here, thank you for sharing yours for the good of the order Gabe.

    I know many of us here wear a uniform or a badge, and I am sure that you are a lot like me. I do this profession because of who I am, I am NOT the way I am because of the job. I would be the same if I were a painter.

    You don't use a pretty toy poodle to guard the junk yard. We are an extension of harnessed violence waiting for the right circumstances to apply it.

    You don't have to be a cop or a vet, just be trained, be a man, and be ready. I will always strive to ensure wherever I plant my feet is a safe place for those I care about. If it is not a safe place I will do what ever it takes to make the place safe.

    Stay salty boys...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by m48shooter View Post
    ************************************

    Papa has it 100%, and has just described hundreds of training days that all of us .gov, .mil, and LEO have run through. Those of us that came to this calling for the right reasons WANT to eat. We deal with ALL OF THE CRAP so we can be in the right place at the right time to get eat. The K-9 tracks so he gets to bite, we work in the hope that the balloon goes up and we are close enough to make a difference.

    The boss has described this many times here, thank you for sharing yours for the good of the order Gabe.

    I know many of us here wear a uniform or a badge, and I am sure that you are a lot like me. I do this profession because of who I am, I am NOT the way I am because of the job. I would be the same if I were a painter.

    You don't use a pretty toy poodle to guard the junk yard. We are an extension of harnessed violence waiting for the right circumstances to apply it.

    You don't have to be a cop or a vet, just be trained, be a man, and be ready. I will always strive to ensure wherever I plant my feet is a safe place for those I care about. If it is not a safe place I will do what ever it takes to make the place safe.

    Stay salty boys...

    The majority of the Suarez students that train with me put in more training hours than just about all the officers I know and work with. The uneducated public and politicians remain ignorant on the profession of arms.
    Jon Payne
    Ambassador, Suarez Group of Companies
    Suarez International Law Enforcement Instructor
    Texas LTC Instructor

    The Two Most Dangerous Places in Today's World:
    1.) A Gun Free Zone
    2.) Your Comfort Zone

    I choose to live a peaceful life. It's not hard to change my mind.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    Excellent...Thanks Coastal. Hopefully some other LE will comment as I know there are plenty here. Everyone wants to shoot the bad guy...but nobody wants to shoot a good guy by mistake...or get shot by a good guy.

    And to be honest...all those CCW heroes that some are concerned about...the reality is that when the first shots go off they will channel Ayoob and come up with a myriad of reasons they should not engage. I doubt we will be running into many of them.

    So that said...if we are seen by the good guys we want them to think...at first glance...that we are also good guys...members of their tribe so to speak. How do we do that?
    Our fitness, our demeanor, our skill of arms, and our gun handling. How you look and how you act send instantaneous messages to the hunter. Are you another hunter? Are you the wolf? Are you the prey?

    Even with some of the recent bad guys being kitted up, look at how they handled their weapons. Look at how they carried themselves.
    Jon Payne
    Ambassador, Suarez Group of Companies
    Suarez International Law Enforcement Instructor
    Texas LTC Instructor

    The Two Most Dangerous Places in Today's World:
    1.) A Gun Free Zone
    2.) Your Comfort Zone

    I choose to live a peaceful life. It's not hard to change my mind.

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