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  1. #21
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    I gotcha Gabe, and what you say makes sense; but THIS incident being in a NPE, an NPE that had added xtra security including metal detectors; Im just thinking that the responding officers would have engaged pretty much anyone with ANY weapon. In a NPE where anyone carrying a weapon is likely to be a bad guy (even if its a civilian breaking the law to defend himself/family). I don't know about you; but Ive had plain clothes guys show up on the scene carrying a shotgun (or rifle) with nothing more than a badge hanging around their neck of maybe a raid jacket. Havent you spoken about carrying long guns when you were on the gang unit?

    Still I get what youre saying. Being the guy with a rifle, does attract attention; but maybe being the guy not running from the gun shots is just as much of a head scratcher.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDELWEISS View Post
    I gotcha Gabe, and what you say makes sense; but THIS incident being in a NPE, an NPE that had added xtra security including metal detectors; Im just thinking that the responding officers would have engaged pretty much anyone with ANY weapon. In a NPE where anyone carrying a weapon is likely to be a bad guy (even if its a civilian breaking the law to defend himself/family). I don't know about you; but Ive had plain clothes guys show up on the scene carrying a shotgun (or rifle) with nothing more than a badge hanging around their neck of maybe a raid jacket. Havent you spoken about carrying long guns when you were on the gang unit?

    Still I get what youre saying. Being the guy with a rifle, does attract attention; but maybe being the guy not running from the gun shots is just as much of a head scratcher.
    Yeah...I know you are the PDW size matters guy...BUT...a handgun often times is not even seen. The identifier is this -

    MAN WITH A RIFLE

    Off duty police do not stay at home waiting for a call out. They go places with their families...even things like Garlic Festivals in Gilroy California. And those officers in attendance (unlike Broward and Thousand oaks) might likely elect to engage the shooter. I don't believe for a moment that officers will be programmed to shoot anyone not in their uniform knowing this. LE guys...if I am wrong, please advise. I don't think guys will risk blue-on-blue when there is doubt about the man they are looking at is a police officier off duty.

    MAN WITH A RIFLE

    I can almost picture the call in my mind.

    All units respond - shots fired - active shooting in progress - male white armed with a rifle - wearing fatigues - information coming in

    Not man with a walther ppk...or man with a glock...or anything similar.

    MAN WITH A RIFLE

    Off duty police don't go around with special back packs and special sneakybag stuff with cool PDWs concealed therein. They carry....wait for it....PISTOLS

    As the meat eaters are rolling...praying to the god of war they get there in time to kill the shooter, they are forming a picture in their minds of the shooter. Male white wearing fatigues...there could be other white dudes wearing similar clothing...filter...filter...filter. How do I recognize him and shoot the right guy....RIFLE

    MAN WITH A RIFLE

    KILL THE MAN WITH THE RIFLE
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  3. #23
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    The more I study these events, the more I am convinced that part of the happenstance responder's mission is to look like a good guy. That includes appearance, fitness level, attire, and weapons.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  4. #24
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    So when choosing what you carry everyday consider this....will this weapon tag me as a bad guy?

    In my opinion...unless you are wearing a police raid jacket, anything other than a handgun is a liability in an active shooter response. Anyone that deploys a long gun in these events is a black swan where they were extremely lucky and the police tardy.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  5. #25
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    Sorry gang but a long gun's Role/Niche/Envelope is all in the realm of a proactive tool that requires preparation, pre-event. Yes I roll heavy in my truck and don't on the bike because even my vehicle choices have a Role/Niche/Envelope. Your decisions on this should reflect the likelihood of engagement within your environment. On the motorcycle, speed and mobility is paramount. In the truck it's weight, height, and capability lead it to being a weapon and carrying weapons that I can use because it's maneuverability isn't primary in it's design.

    You have to get past the part of the pistol being a substandard weapon system as compared to the long gun in most circumstances but it is the most likely to be what LEO will expect a good guy to have, and most likely to be what you will have on you in an event.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    The identifier is this - MAN WITH A RIFLE ....I don't think guys will risk blue-on-blue when there is doubt about the man they are looking at is a police officer off duty.
    Lots of off duty LEO aren't armed at all. I suspect far less than 1% are rolling with a PDW or equivalent in a sneaky bag on-body, especially not at a shorts 'n T-shirt event like this one. So it's gonna be a BUG like a Kahr, a G26, or a Bodyguard.

    As a first responder, I'd be looking at action more than appearance. If I see a rifleman firing at unarmed civilians it's a no-brainer.

    But if among those fleeing I see a guy in shorts and flip flops with a J frame engaging an armored AR-armed foe that is not clearly identifiable as a cop I'm going to make some assumptions and the overwhelming odds are I'll be right.

    It helps that I know most of the LEO around here. More important, they know me.

    Off duty, it's me with a couple of concealed handguns that I can hit with at 100 yards, and I'm not gonna stand and deliver in the dusty street.

    As for off-duty attire, I don't wear camo or gun logo shirts unless I'm training or in the woods (No shorts, for that matter. No one wants to see my scarred, beatup bowlegs).
    Last edited by Papa; 07-29-2019 at 01:34 PM.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    181. And a wakeup.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Lots of off duty LEO aren't armed at all. I suspect far less than 1% are rolling with a PDW or equivalent in a sneaky bag on-body, especially not at a shorts 'n T-shirt event like this one. So it's gonna be a BUG like a Kahr, a G26, or a Bodyguard.

    As a first responder, I'd be looking at action more than appearance. If I see a rifleman firing at unarmed civilians it's a no-brainer.

    Yep, I can tell a professional over amateur, over a mentally disturbed person in nearly an instant

    But if among those fleeing I see a guy in shorts and flip flops with a J frame engaging an armored AR-armed foe that is not clearly identifiable as a cop I'm going to make some assumptions and the overwhelming odds are I'll be right.

    Correct, because he wasn't obviously prepared for a fight. While an active shooter will have made some preparation (even if misguided) in advance of the event and will appear so.


    Off duty, it's me with a couple of concealed handguns that I can hit with at 100 yards, and I'm not gonna stand and deliver in the dusty street.

    Nope, I'm going to find, fix, and kill the shooter from the position of most advantage.

    As for off-duty attire, I don't wear camo or gun logo shirts unless I'm training or in the woods (No shorts, for that matter. No one wants to see my scarred, beatup bowlegs).

    Yep, in shorts I look like I'm riding a chicken. I only wear shorts around the house or at the gym.
    A few points.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    As a first responder, I'd be looking at action more than appearance. If I see a rifleman firing at unarmed civilians it's a no-brainer.

    But if among those fleeing I see a guy in shorts and flip flops with a J frame engaging an armored AR-armed foe that is not clearly identifiable as a cop I'm going to make some assumptions and the overwhelming odds are I'll be right.
    For Emphasis
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  9. #29
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    But I do wear shorts cuz I have strong motherfecking legs

    gabeshorts-0618.jpg
    Last edited by Gabriel Suarez; 07-29-2019 at 02:00 PM.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  10. #30
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    Aug 2014
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    3,647
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    181. And a wakeup.

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