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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Se AZ
    Posts
    549
    Until you live in Az, or you do some off the mainstream research you dont know about our bears. Az is ranked #4 for black bears in the US with many every year approaching the 600 lb mark. They are isolated, at high altitudes, my last one I could see the border fence from where he fell.

    So Gabe's reasoning is sound, the closest Ive been to a live bear in the last 30 years has been in Az. I was sitting on one end of a fallen tree, Mom and 3 cubs popped out of the bush onto the other end. It had possibilities of getting "downright western" as the GF said when I showed them the pics. Its rare for 1 bear to have 3 cubs.

    What stands the hair on my neck is not our bears. They do get plenty big, but theres nothing this far south I fear more than a Jaguar. 250 lbs of "I can and will eat anything I want" including humans. They tend to stay away, but the reason I am the new owner of a TAC14 converted to an Amphibian is more of an anti big cat gun and less of a bear gun.

    My house cat fought a lion kitten through the glass in my dining room, and Mom was right there. Lions are very common, and the Jaguars more so in SE Az, with a range of 250-300 miles Prescott is really not that much of a hump for a Jaguar.

    I have some new slugs coming from a company I met with at Shot, Alaska GF is testing them to replace the Brenneke Black Majic, and the results I saw in the video tests there I believe it. Until then my Amphibian is loaded with 00 for other than critters, and Brenneke's awaiting future developments.

    To those off the pavement in Az and NM, bears are not your only concern
    Originally Posted by Gabe Suarez

    War is not moral...fighting of any sort, is not moral. It is about killing the adversary. So here is the rule. Do what you need to do to win...have a ready explanation to justify it according to whatever rules you are supposed to be playing with...work only with people you can trust or work alone...then stick to your story and keep your mouth shut.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    45,415
    I have heard of Jaguars, but not this far north. We do have mountain lions. I'd like to hear more.. including your new ammo.

    I have read a great deal about the south american tigers. Peter Capstick wrote about them. He also hunted leopards with...wait for it...a 12 ga pump shotgun and buckshot. I will see if I can find the references in my library.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

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  3. #83
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South-Central Idaho
    Posts
    3,117
    Arizona Jaguar sightings

    Interesting. I wasn't aware they came that far north.
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  4. #84
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,451
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    I have heard of Jaguars, but not this far north. We do have mountain lions. I'd like to hear more.. including your new ammo.

    I have read a great deal about the south american tigers. Peter Capstick wrote about them. He also hunted leopards with...wait for it...a 12 ga pump shotgun and buckshot. I will see if I can find the references in my library.
    A 12ga with 00 buck would be good medicine for a big cat.
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  5. #85
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Se AZ
    Posts
    549
    I believe the book(s) by Capstick you reference is Death in the Long Grass. Among others.

    Yes, a 12 Bore with 00 is a favorite for following up wounded Leopards. Pretty sure that's not on my bucket list.

    Cats are not thick skinned at all. I killed a Mt Lion with a 17 Remington. Not my first choice but was legal at the time. A 556 will kill them dead as ranchers down here prove all the time. Saying that, there's a reason 00 buck is the preferred method for wounded cats and I wouldn't feel under gunned at all with how mine is loaded now.

    The only creature I've ever looked in the eye that made me realize I was very mortal was a Jaguar. Absolutely no doubt I'm alive because he allowed it, not because I did anything heroic.

    As far as the new ammo, Ill be happy to forward everything after I get a look at it closely. I'd love to say its the cats ass, but until I shoot some and see the test videos from AK its just a pretty picture. Interesting as it is.

    I'm sure my Amphibian, as well as my 375 H&H and my 460 SW will be traveling on the next trip to Wyoming to hunt Elk. I don't worry much until a rifle goes off and its like a dinner bell. I lost an Elk years ago to the wolves in the White Mountains in Az for the same reason.

    Bears are a dangerous nuisance near the park borders, along with those damned wolves. I hate wolves......for lots of reasons
    Last edited by Tracker; 02-09-2020 at 09:20 PM.
    Originally Posted by Gabe Suarez

    War is not moral...fighting of any sort, is not moral. It is about killing the adversary. So here is the rule. Do what you need to do to win...have a ready explanation to justify it according to whatever rules you are supposed to be playing with...work only with people you can trust or work alone...then stick to your story and keep your mouth shut.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Se AZ
    Posts
    549
    Someone was asking where is the recommended point of aim on a bear.

    An old Ak guide told me the best thing to hold on, or try too was the tip of his nose as he comes for you. If you manage to hit it, the bears skull is a funnel for the bullet to travel back into the brain cavity. If (when) you miss, as it is moving as the bear runs at you, there is a LOT of bear around that moving nose.

    Then its all about the right bullet and how fast you work the action.
    Originally Posted by Gabe Suarez

    War is not moral...fighting of any sort, is not moral. It is about killing the adversary. So here is the rule. Do what you need to do to win...have a ready explanation to justify it according to whatever rules you are supposed to be playing with...work only with people you can trust or work alone...then stick to your story and keep your mouth shut.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Se AZ
    Posts
    549
    I just read an email from a guy who reads here but is not a member.

    He said to me" a 12 gauge with slugs is what the bear hunters carry when they aren't hunting bears". Very telling, and says everything I feel about a shotgun in a simple sentence.
    Originally Posted by Gabe Suarez

    War is not moral...fighting of any sort, is not moral. It is about killing the adversary. So here is the rule. Do what you need to do to win...have a ready explanation to justify it according to whatever rules you are supposed to be playing with...work only with people you can trust or work alone...then stick to your story and keep your mouth shut.

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