Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    46,383

    Default MUSSOLINI'S DUELS

    musolini-duel.png

    Between 1915 and 1922, Mussolini fought in five duels, winning all of them.


    The duels were against the Socialist deputies Claudio Treves and Francesco Ciccotti Scozzese, the newsman Mario Missiroli, the anarchist Libero Merlino, and Major Cristoforo Baseggio.


    The duels, however, were against the law, and therefore Mussolini had judiciary problems because of them.


    In 1921, Benito Mussolini challenged an anti-Fascist newspaper editor named Francesco Ciccotti to a duel with swords. Mussolini injured Ciccotti badly enough that he was unable to continue the fight. The man later fled the country when Mussolini did his March on Rome.


    The duel with the director of the newspaper Il Secolo di Milano, Mario Missiroli, happened on the outskirts of Milano on 13 May 1922.


    The quarrel between Mussolini and Missiroli started when the latter published an article by Carlo Russo on 21 March 1922 attacking the fascist actions in defense of the agrarian workers of Lomellina, completely changing the facts.


    On 10 May the quarrel escalated with the unfair coverage of the Il Secolo, which completely sided with the Socialists and the immediate response "Pietose Illusioni" from Mussolini in the Popolo d'Italia.


    Feeling insulted by such article, Missiroli sent a challenge to Mussolini on 12 May, from his reporter Francesco Perotti and his sword teacher Dino Urbani.


    As Missiroli was recognised as insulted, he had the right to choose the weapon. He chose the sword.


    Mussolini agreed, nominating as his seconds the colonel Roberto Raggio and the engineer Mario Chiesa, both decorated and disabled veterans.


    The fight lasted 40 minutes with seven assaults. On the first Mussolini broke the tip of his sword; with the third Missiroli had a minor injury but on the seventh Missiroli was badly injured at his forearm with a large loss of blood. Immediately the doctors and the seconds unanimously stopped the fight.


    According to accounts of the fight, the two duelists acted in perfect chivalry but did not reconcile.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    15,898
    Men were men; different times and codes of conduct. Somehow I just cannot imagine Trump and Sanders in a fencing duel. What is surprising is that the newspaper man made a credible account of himself. Would not happen today. Interesting it was not too the death. I understand it was not that long ago that such duels did occur in france done in a quiet manner, even if illegal, and normally were not to the death. i am sure that is not true anymore.
    Below is Trump and other american leaders with Saudi Swords during a Sword dance.
    Last edited by barnetmill; 07-13-2019 at 08:30 PM.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,909
    pistols.jpg

    "Pistols next time."
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I rode the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer (as modified)

    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    Vale et omnia quae.

    P:20

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    15,898
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    pistols.jpg

    "Pistols next time."
    Pistols are often lethal and the arms are not the target. With swords arms are a prime target and many of the initial wounds are not as lethal giving more leeway to end the fight with honor for both combatants prior to a mortal wound. True a sword thrust that penetrates the torso is just as dangerous as a pistol wound if not more than what a dueling pistol can do. Swords demand more physicality and show everyone that you are a man even if you lose more than do pistols.
    Last edited by barnetmill; 07-14-2019 at 06:14 AM.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Made it to Free America
    Posts
    13,241
    Grass before Breakfast, as it used to be called was an act of honor. Unfortunately theres a lack of honor in the world today. There ARE rules and thus not interesting to most of whom we would want to duel. The Code Duello outlined those rules. Typically "dueling pistols" were large bore and smoothbore (well after rifling was available). The idea wasn't the opponent's death, rather satisfaction. Duels could be ended at anytime with an apology. Dueling scars were seen as been there done that badge, although with a note of what happened to the other guy?

    Not all dueling was meant to be to the death. We've talked about the wax bullet duels in the past, certainly something that is possible today. Perhaps we could reduce the volume of civil court cases by diversion to the Code Duello....

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    15,898
    Quote Originally Posted by EDELWEISS View Post
    Grass before Breakfast, as it used to be called was an act of honor. Unfortunately theres a lack of honor in the world today. There ARE rules and thus not interesting to most of whom we would want to duel. The Code Duello outlined those rules. Typically "dueling pistols" were large bore and smoothbore (well after rifling was available). The idea wasn't the opponent's death, rather satisfaction. Duels could be ended at anytime with an apology. Dueling scars were seen as been there done that badge, although with a note of what happened to the other guy?

    Not all dueling was meant to be to the death. We've talked about the wax bullet duels in the past, certainly something that is possible today. Perhaps we could reduce the volume of civil court cases by diversion to the Code Duello....
    Here is what wiki says about dueling pistols and I have read slightly different elsewhere. Especially about the powder charges and velocities that were obtained.
    Standard flintlock pistols have a noticeable delay between pulling the trigger and actually firing the bullet. Purpose-built duelling pistols have various improvements to make them more reliable and accurate, such as longer and heavier barrels, spurs on the trigger guards, saw handles, platinum-lined touch-holes and hair triggers. All component parts were manufactured, hand-finished and then adjusted with great care and precision, which made duelling pistols much more costly than standard firearms of the period. Special care was taken when moulding the lead bullets to ensure that there were no voids which would affect accuracy. Pistols were carefully and identically loaded, and each duellist was offered his choice of the indistinguishable loaded pistols. As duels were generally fought at short distances which were paced out, typically 35 to 45 feet (11 to 14 m),[1] between stationary opponents, extreme accuracy was not required.[2]
    Duelling pistols had long barrels - typically around 10 in (250 mm) and fired large, heavy bullets. Pistols with calibers of 0.45 in (11 mm), 0.52 in (13 mm), 0.58 in (15 mm) or even 0.65 in (17 mm) were common.[3] The bullets loaded in them could weigh 214 grains (0.49 ounces; 13.9 grams) in .52 caliber, or more in larger calibers. Bullets were fired with a muzzle velocity of approximately 830 feet per second (250 m/s), which made a .52 caliber bullet about as lethal as a current .45 ACP round - and therefore capable of inflicting very severe wounds. These injuries, coupled with the primitive state of emergency medicine at the time when duels were commonplace, meant that pistol duels frequently resulted in fatalities, often some hours or days afterwards. This was the fate of Alexander Pushkin, a highly experienced pistol duellist who had fought 29 duels before being wounded in the stomach by Georges-Charles de Heeckeren d'Anthès on 8 February 1837. Pushkin managed to return fire, slightly wounding d'Anthès, but died two days later.[4]
    Most English pistols had smooth bores, though some had scratch rifling, a subtle form of rifling which was difficult to see with the naked eye. Pistols with rifled barrel spin-stabilise the shot when it is fired, resulting in much improved accuracy. As a result, duelling pistols with rifled barrels were considered unsporting by many, although there was no unfairness so long as the pistols were identical.[3]
    Andrew Jackson fought many duels. His most famous he took a ball in the chest and still managed to kill his foe. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-...kinson-in-duel
    (Rachel had married Jackson not knowing her first husband had failed to finalize their divorce.) After the insult to Rachel and a statement published in the National Review in which Dickinson called Jackson a worthless scoundrel and, again, a coward, Jackson challenged Dickinson to a duel.On May 30, 1806, Jackson and Dickinson met at Harrison's Mills on the Red River in Logan, Kentucky. At the first signal from their seconds, Dickinson fired. Jackson received Dickinson’s first bullet in the chest next to his heart. Jackson put his hand over the wound to staunch the flow of blood and stayed standing long enough to fire his gun. Dickinson’s seconds claimed Jackson’s first shot misfired, which would have meant the duel was over, but, in a breach of etiquette, Jackson re-cocked the gun and shot again, this time killing his opponent. Although Jackson recovered, he suffered chronic pain from the wound for the remainder of his life.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  7. #7
    From Wiki on his WWI service:
    Overall, he totaled about nine months of active, front-line trench warfare... His military exploits ended in 1917 when he was wounded accidentally by the explosion of a mortar bomb in his trench. He was left with at least 40 shards of metal in his body.[61]
    Imagine that honed a strong mindset. I cannot express the depth of my negative feelings towards his political work but I can respect this side of him.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,909
    Dickinson’s seconds claimed Jackson’s first shot misfired, which would have meant the duel was over, but, in a breach of etiquette, Jackson re-cocked the gun and shot again, this time killing his opponent.

    I should certainly hope so. Insult my wife, call me a coward and shoot me in the chest and I will become seriously motivated to kill you.

    On a related note, watch "The Duelists" if you haven't already. If you have, watch it again. Fear, honor, courage, irrational conflict--it's one hell of a movie and character study.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I rode the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer (as modified)

    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    Vale et omnia quae.

    P:20

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Under the Black Flag
    Posts
    351
    I second "The Duelists"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    1,310
    I firmly believe dueling was outlawed because lawyers weren't making money from the conflicts, and of course loud mouthed cowards were made to answer for their indiscretions. Cant have that can we. Sarcasm on.

    I would prefer the pistol, axe or spear myself.

    jim
    Last edited by Chainsaw76; 07-15-2019 at 08:55 AM.
    2 Samuel 22; Psalm 139:21-22

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •