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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Clearwater, Florida
    Posts
    153

    Default Tourniquets, time and cowboy movies

    I was involved in a discussion yesterday reference TQ's. I couldn't believe some of what I was hearing. I'm sure this is old hat for most of us but I want to bring up a few points, whether you carry a TQ or not.

    Before we dive in all emotional, a few parameters to narrow your view. I'm referring to the use of this medical intervention for the armed citizen, not the member of a tactical team that brought two medics with them. You are injured or you are helping another person. Generically speaking, if a person has a real life, blood squirting out, arterial bleed they will die in approximately 2 minutes. Sometimes faster, for others it may be longer. Don't confuse that "TWO" minutes with "TWO" minutes to save yourself. After 30 seconds, or so (everyone is different), blood loss will negate your ability to use a TQ effectively. Your precious life blood will stop being sent to your extremities so it can be rationed for more critical physiological systems.

    One person advised they didn't need one, because they could always use the laces from a boot. This is bad info. A shoe or boot lace, even wrapped around a limb more than once, will cut your flesh before you can get it tight enough to preclude bleeding. The lace is simply not wide enough. If that wasn't bad enough, what kind of knot are you going secure the lace up with, with your slippery, blood soaked hands?

    In the interest of testing theories and varying sources,,,for your review. I put one of my Danners on and laced it up as normal. I wanted to see how long it would take me to remove the lace from one boot before I could begin making a tourniquet failure out of it. With both hands it took me 40 plus seconds to remove the lace from my boot. That's from the comfort and low stress environment of my couch. No one was trying to kill me and I didn't have an extremely serious injury. The time is not going to improve if I did. If the Injury is to one of my arms or a hand the time is exponentially worse.

    Another commented that they always had a TQ on them, "it's called a belt". Well then gunslinger, I guess you have this figured out.

    The belt I use on a daily bases is rigid, so it can support the weight of my handgun and spare mag and a robust draw. Although wide enough, that same rigidity precludes its use as a TQ. I'll never get it tight enough. Once I remove the belt, see couch experiment above, I've lost my holster and extra mag. In reality we likely will be working in a confined space or less than ideal position such as sitting in a car.

    To be effective a TQ has to be placed in the proper location and needs some type of windlass you can twist to force it to tighten. What do we use now to tighten this thing? If we do get it tightened it needs to withstand the rigors of self evacuation or someone dragging you.

    So, everything takes time. It takes time to bleed to death, time to put a TQ on yourself or another person. It takes far to long to improvise a tourniquet. If this is something you think is important, spend $30 bucks on the real thing and get some training. Have the ability to put a TQ on rapidly. Not only to stem the loss of blood but also because you likely have a fight to finish.

    Shawn Pappas

    https://suarezinternational.com/crg-...yakka-city-fl/

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,280
    Outstanding.

    Military or first responders who don't carry at least one TQ and know how to use it are behaving stupidly.

    In civvies, how are tribe members carrying their TQs?
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "Can I move?...I'm better when I move."

    1, 0, 17. And a wakeup.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    9,487
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Outstanding.

    Military or first responders who don't carry at least one TQ and know how to use it are behaving stupidly.

    In civvies, how are tribe members carrying their TQs?
    I just throw one of the little Cav Arms flat TQs in a pocket wrapped with a rubber band to keep it staged for use. If you want to learn to use TQs, and improvise them and other medical aid I'd recommend coming here:



    https://suarezinternational.com/rural-trauma-medicine-august-3-4-2019-kirksville-mo/?ctk=8e9eab6c-a9fd-4ab2-84c5-aaef9bc7d62d


    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
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    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    5,572
    I have a laptop bag that gets carried to work and whenever I'm in public using a computer (not often). I carry a couple in there.

    I have a small sneaky bag that gets a fair amount of use, but it's not on me all the time. I carry one in there.

    Unless I have one of those bags with me, I don't have a TQ. I recognize it's not ideal but...realistically I'm just not going to carry it on my body. I don't have that much real estate. Reading this makes me consider adding one to a jacket pocket, but that's still not 100%.

    A buddy of mine is an avid hiker. He fashioned a carry method on his backpack straps and seems well practiced at deploying and self-application. I was impressed but haven't been motivated enough to work on this area.


    This thread is a good reminder, thanks. I'm still not going to carry something on my body but it's easy enough to add this item to bag carry and vehicles.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

    Upcoming classes:

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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,309
    I have TQs in my truck. I have two things on my keyring to make one as well as the knowledge of how to improvise them that I learned in class. Greg and Sua's class should be full if it already isn't...
    Geek Warlord
    Dungeons & Dragons & Deadlifts

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    CRG-1 DPS
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    TWOTU since May 2015

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    9,487
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkface View Post
    I have TQs in my truck. I have two things on my keyring to make one as well as the knowledge of how to improvise them that I learned in class. Greg and Sua's class should be full if it already isn't...
    I keep on in my motorcycle jacket, and in my and the little lady's vehicles I keep a full bleeder kit, TQ, and nasal airway in a vacuume packed little package.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    113
    TQ in every vehicle in the family. Keep one in my back pocket while off, and four on me at all times at work.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    113
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    I just throw one of the little Cav Arms flat TQs in a pocket wrapped with a rubber band to keep it staged for use. If you want to learn to use TQs, and improvise them and other medical aid I'd recommend coming here:



    https://suarezinternational.com/rural-trauma-medicine-august-3-4-2019-kirksville-mo/?ctk=8e9eab6c-a9fd-4ab2-84c5-aaef9bc7d62d


    If I could've gotten off work, I'd be there. Haven't been to Kirksville in about 15 years.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Outstanding.

    In civvies, how are tribe members carrying their TQs?
    Cargo pocket usually. Back pocket of jeans if I'm wearing something with no cargo pockets. When I had an office job I would usually carry in one of my front pockets.

    This is with a CAT. I imagine it looks a little funny. I work in a couple of low-volume EMS systems and otherwise live a pretty sedate life. I used to sometimes think it was ridiculous overkill to be walking around with a TQ 24/7.

    I don't think that any more, though.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    15,578
    I still remember the fight we had getting "permission" to add one to the crash kit we carried to the range every time we went.
    I rather you hated me for who I am than love me for who I ain't!
    This Ain't the Movies, and You Ain't John Wayne!

    Sometimes it is entirely appropriate to kill a fly with a 12 pound sledgehammer!
    TRAIN HARD= SOONER OR LATER YOU"LL NEED IT!

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