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Thread: CBD Oil

  1. #41
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    From the Arthritis Research Foundation: Two kinds of the cannabis sativa plant, hemp and marijuana, produce chemical compounds called cannabinoids. Cannabidiol (CBD) is one type of cannabinoid, but it doesn’t get you high.

    You might be surprised to learn that your body makes its own cannabinoids (called endocannabinoids) and has cannabinoid receptors, some related to inflammation and pain. Researchers once thought the CBD in products attached to these receptors, but now they suspect CBD helps your body use its own endocannabinoids more effectively.

    Daniel Clauw, MD, a professor at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor and an expert in chronic pain, doesn’t write off CBD’s potential benefits and recommends it to some of his patients. “A recent trial* showed CBD alone was effective in [the treatment of] knee OA, and it appears as though it is very safe,” he says. “Nearly all potential side effects of cannabinoids are from THC, not CBD.”
    Here are his suggestions if you want to try it:

    • Use low doses, which seem to work best for pain relief.
    • Start with a CBD-only product, 5 – 10mg twice daily, and then slowly increase, going up to dose of 50 – 100mg per day. If that doesn’t help, try a CBD product with a low dose of THC.
    • Use only at night at first; slowly increase dose if needed.
    • Edibles’ effects last longer than vaping, so don’t try them until you know what CBD strain and dose work for you.
    • Use caution if you are 25 years old or younger and using CBD products that contain THC. This age group is at highest risk of addiction, dependency or even psychosis.
    From Depression Alliance: While not entirely impossible, it is extremely unlikely that an individual would overdose on CBD. By some estimates, an average 180lb male would need to take more than 33 tablespoons of CBD oil in order to overdose; given that the recommended dosage in this circumstance is 1/8 of a teaspoon, it would take a truly concerted effort in order to reach a level of CBD that was potentially harmful.
    Again this refers to oral and not topical. This is the last research I am doing on the subject, use it or don't it makes no difference to me but I hope this dispels some of the "Reefer Madness" responses from above. If you want to know more, google, there is tons out there.
    Last edited by Greg Nichols; 07-11-2019 at 11:40 AM.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDELWEISS View Post

    I’m really not opposed to new cures. I’d just like to make sure it’s not snake oil.
    Snake Oil was made from Echinacea root which contains powerful hyaluronidase inhibitors. Hyaluronidase, of course, is the enzyme in snake (and some spiders') venom which dissolves hyaluronic acid (the glue that holds your cells together). So, actually, snake oil is and was extremely effective for snake bites. I use Echinacea to arrest tissue degradation in venomous bite cases all the time and it's nothing short of astounding...but that's another thread.

    I'm a clinical herbalist, a naturopath and a practicing veterinarian. I've been contacted by a number of state senators from various states recently seeking info and advice on the medical marijuana questions facing their legislatures so my credentials are apparently of some note.

    CBD oil is illegal in Idaho. There have been two cases involving arrests and the seizure of a truck in recent months here. It's legal federally but Idaho hasn't changed its state laws yet. All of the recent cases were dismissed eventually but not without a lot of hassle and expense. So Idaho is playing the opposite game that Colorado is playing with regard to the Federal laws. At some point the states and feds need to pull their collective heads out of their butts and get on the same page with the Cannabis question.

    As to the efficacy of CBD oil, yes it's very effective for the conditions mentioned so far in this thread. It is vastly safer and more effective than many over the counter, fully-legal options (ie..Greg's ibuprofen and booze). That said, I don't use it or sell it because it's illegal in my state. Everyone else and their dog uses it and sells it in Idaho and I say more power to them. Hopefully things will change here at some point soon.

    On another note, CBD oil's existence in the market place costs me $6,000 per year. The banking partners of Shopify (who hosts several my online businesses HomeGrownHerbalist.net and a few others) have ruled that they won't process credit card payments for any company that sells any sort of herbal or nutritional supplement because apparently they cant sort out the difference between vitamin C or Echinacea and Marijuana. As a result, I have to use a third party credit card processor for which Shopify dings me 3% on every transaction. I'm leaving Shopify and my IT guy is creating new websites for me as we speak and we've found banks that actually do know the difference between herbs and dope.

    I have a colleague that has a large and successful online company based in Texas that recently started selling a little CBD oil (which is legal in Texas and is also federally legal) who was told by Wells Fargo Bank that she needed to close all of her accounts with them as they were no longer willing to do business with her.

    Many banks are scared to death of the stuff because of the variability of the laws between states, nationally and internationally. They don't want the hassle of governments seizing funds or freezing accounts so they just don't get anywhere near anything derived in anyway from Cannabis and won't do business with anyone that does.

    I was talking a few weeks ago to some folks who had traveled from Colorado to Idaho to attend one of my herb walks and workshops. They said that in their area it's about impossible to buy real estate because all of the pot growers (legal in Colorado) are going around with trunks full of money buying up the real estate because if they put their money in the banks, the feds seize it.

    The whole Cannabis/CBD/Hemp thing is a big mess right now. Hopefully it will get straightened out soon when the states and feds realize it's all taxable income and have a change of heart. LOL

    Glad it's working for you Greg. I know lots of people and dogs that have had similar results.

    Doc

    Link to one of the recent Idaho cases.
    Last edited by DogDoc; 07-11-2019 at 02:45 PM.
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  3. #43
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    The situation in Ohio is also strange. CBD possession is a crime unless dispensed at the state approved dispensaries on the order of a practitioner who has undergone state certification to "prescribe" cannabis for 21 bureaucracy-approved conditions.


    "...On August 27, 2018, the State of Ohio Board of Pharmacy (Board of Pharmacy) issued a statement with its interpretation of HB 523, the Ohio Medical Marijuana Act. According to the Board of Pharmacy, HB 523 includes CBD oil in the definition of Marijuana. As such, according to the Board of Pharmacy, all marijuana products, including CBD oil, can be dispensed only by a licensed Medical Marijuana Control Program dispensary. The Board of Pharmacy further opined that, until dispensaries are operational, no one may possess or sell CBD oil or other marijuana-related products and any violation can subject an individual or entity to administrative or criminal action..."


    https://www.keglerbrown.com/publicat...clarification/

  4. #44
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    Ok so I'm still conducting testing and I stopped using it for 2 days last week on Tues and Wed. Thurs and Fri I only used one application. Friday night my hip was popping in and out of place and grinding like crazy Sat morning so I guess it proved out that to avoid inflammation you have to keep on it every day, even when you don't hurt for it to work.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
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    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  5. #45
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    Hey Greg how has your experience been going? Have you seen any increase in tolerance levels or decrease in effectiveness over all?
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  6. #46
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    What Im hearing (and it seems to be confirmed here), is that anybody can brew a batch of eyes of newts and toes of frogs, let it bubble for a bit, before packaging and selling it.... Im actually not opposed to that; but it does sound an awful lot like when a batch of heroin hits the street and later when the re-up is delayed and the product is repackaged with added shit to fill the shelves. How is this different? you're shitting me right? extracting an oil from a plant (like green tea, olives, corn, aloe vera) mixing it with menthol and lanolin, and jarring it is now akin to heroin manufacture? That's moronic
    His analogy isn't quite as moronic as it looks up front.

    Opium is extracted from Poppies, processed with some common chemicals (not exactly menthol and lanolin) and thus heroin.

    This is actually a bit of a problem here in Colorado with THC. Much of the "legal" stuff is *way* more potent than pot used to be, and once you get into edibles there's a problem with objective standards in labeling. For smoking it's not as big a deal, but it's a LOT easier to overeat.

    Most "supplements", including CBD oils, have little to no regulation or oversight (I'm not complaining about this, it's just how things are) and companies making supplements--the stuff you find in every grocery and drug store--have been caught putting *actual* steroids in their products, have been caught using contaminated/dirty equipment, and in at least one case have been caught selling pills that didn't have a single trace of *anything* on the label in them. And this isn't even getting into most of them having been fined for lying about what this or that supplement is really able to do.

    This is not that far off from buying a "street drug" and not knowing exactly what is in it. Sometimes people have bought "heroin" and received fentynal.

    Like people who bought "Dr. Larry's Tranquility pills" to get a good nights sleep, being told they were a mixture of figwort root and licorice. Instead they were Thorazine, Doxepin. Yeah, that'll get you 8 hours of shut-eye :) See https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...piked/4114451/ Or some of the people who bought what they thought were "natural" supplements and wound up getting real steroids--and yeah, real steroids aren't bad...unless you don't know you're taking them and don't cycle them or watch for specific side effects.

    So Edelweiss isn't wrong to ask this about CBD oil.

    Where he's "wrong" is not understanding that this is a good question to ask for *an entire industry*. How do I know that the handful of supplements I take every morning (including DIM, CoQ10, Curcumin and D3) actually contain what they claim, much less that they actually do what they say.


    How do you know the vegetables your neighbor gives you aren't covered in bug spray, or how many of the beers your buddy brews you can drink before you're over the legal max? How to you know that the contractor you've hired to do the thing is doing a safe and effective job?


    There's a couple companies out there that do certifications in the area. www.nsf.org and www.usp.org are two of them that I am familiar with. They seem like legitimate organizations that do what they say.

    Of course we all thought the same thing about Standard and Poors until recently, no?

    Beyond that it's trust and reputation. There's people I know I wouldn't trust to make me a safe glass of ice water. Others I'd trust to drink anything they gave me.

    Note that this isn't a criticism of CBD oil, it's a criticism of the current maturity of the market and the nature of *some* of the players.
    Last edited by BillyOblivion; 09-01-2019 at 03:25 PM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogDoc View Post
    Snake Oil was made from Echinacea root which contains powerful hyaluronidase inhibitors. Hyaluronidase, of course, is the enzyme in snake (and some spiders') venom which dissolves hyaluronic acid (the glue that holds your cells together). So, actually, snake oil is and was extremely effective for snake bites. I use Echinacea to arrest tissue degradation in venomous bite cases all the time and it's nothing short of astounding...but that's another thread.
    That's also not what exactly what Edelweiss meant.

    Yeah, snake oil is really good for snake bites. It's also lousy for treating the brazilian other ailments it was sold for. See also "Patent Medicines", which would often contain opium or morphine in their tinctures, and were sold as everything from diet aids to tuberculosis cures and cancer cures.

    Snake oil is utter crap at curing cancer.



    It is vastly safer and more effective than many over the counter, fully-legal options (ie..Greg's ibuprofen and booze).
    That's a bullshit statement. We have NO WAY of knowing that this time.

    Ibuprofen has been used by billions of people world wide in various doses since the 1960s. It is probably the most prescribed and OTC drug out there. Side effects for the occasional user almost never happen, and when they do they're extremely mild. For high dose users again the side effects are minimal for *most* people, with some developing mild stomach problems. In a very small percentage of users there is some kidney issues, but this only became visible in the US after three *decades* of use by 10s of millions of people a year.

    Ibuprofen is safer than some of the water used to wash it down.

    With booze the answer is more mixed. We know that in the quantities Greg stated he was taking it that it has deleterious effects, both acute and chronic. However the best information we have is that a couple "drinks" (if you do the math it comes out to 1 ounce of alcohol per 100 pounds of body weight, in whatever form you like it best--red wine, beer, whiskey) is actually pretty good for you.

    We don't have anywhere *near* that kind of information about CBD oil--either negative or positive. We do not have 10,000 participant double blind studies. We don't have 20 year longitudinal studies, we have a handful (maybe a double handful by now) of either short, small scale studies, or laboratory studies.

    The scientific evidence on the longer term safety of CBD oil is NOWHERE NEAR what we have for either Ibuprofen OR Alcohol.

    This isn't a criticism of CBD oil--it's not been out there as a treatment distinct from Cannibis for nearly long enough--heck there hasn't been enough time since it was legalized for research organizations to design and fund studies for it, much less come to any conclusions.

  8. #48
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    Not sure how far down that path you want to go, <longitudinal studies>.
    My youngest was recently diagnosed with Dravot syndrome, a genetic condition that causes hard to control seizures for as long as he lives. Medicare/Medicaid consider it a 100 percent disability condition. The most effective treatment, and only effective long term treatment, has been mentioned in this thread; Epidilax, pharmaceutical grade CBD, at 40-50 thousand dollars a year. However, that has not been tested on children younger than 2. Our neurologist "can't reccomend" us using commercial CBD, but did tell us the dosage range and necessary lab tests.
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  9. #49
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    I have been hitting the weights pretty hard lately. This causes my shoulder/ neck to hurt so bad I loose sleep.
    I went to see my doctor ( he gave me a dose of steroids and 800 ibuprofen) and he suggested CBD cream.
    He says he uses it.I was very surprised. I have yet buy any, living in rural east Texas it’s not readily available.
    Thanks for the information will be actively searching for some CBD cream
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  10. #50
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    What hurts CBD in my opinion is every weed smoker who pops a positive tests claims he/she is only using CBD oil or lotion.

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