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  1. #31
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    Oct 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Yeah. Some (Chuck Taylor) used to advocate using the left hand index finger for this. On a 1911 I use the left hand thumb. Transfers readily to an AR w/o ambi.


    Re: the thread. We're grownups here. "Run what you brung" is what the old street racers used to say. Running a safety or not, I wouldn't stand downrange of Gabe if he were seriously annoyed.

    My work requires I carry in a holster that has 3 (or is it 4?) retention systems. Once I unlock the vault it's not easy to hit a safety as well, especially carrying lefty. So I'll wait and re-evaluate once I'm no longer drinking the client's whiskey.

    Lest we get too far off track, this is not a 1911 v. Glock debate.
    Right? I personally want to hear more about it and discuss it, then play with one before I have a solid stance on it. I still remember back far enough when I thought an AR pistol was just a range toy, and I've completely changed my mind on that topic.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
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  2. #32
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    Shall I simply put everything up to this date in stone and walk away, or am I permitted to think beyond the past and address things as I see them today? There was a day when we sidestepped of the lie of fire as well, and that was a drastic change from weaver stances. I am not suggesting we go back to 1976 standards at all.

    We did the MHS17 pistol. One of the components of that - in order to copy the US Mil pistol submitted was to add a thumb safety from Cominolli. I had only used that before on the Glock PDW (and boy did we get the same response didn't we?). My initial thoughts were similar to what we see here. But after pics of the MHS-17 were taken, and the pistol returned to me (it was one of my original frames we used for the first conversion).

    I stuck in my holster and worked with it. And whether we like it or not, or it upsets the status quo or not, even after not having worked with a safety equipped pistol in decades...I had no problems with it. Was I surprised? Yes I was. That prompted our usual benefits-liabilities evaluation.

    And guess what - we can invent all manner of things to justify why something is not a good choice. I recall the EMP discussion to disqualify adding anything electronic to your weapons back in 2009, and most recently the "shooting from close contact" discussion to counter the advantages of a comp. There are always those counters. Hell, we even had a guy on the FB group saying he never did anything to his carry Glock - even the sights and trigger. The gun didn't fit his hand well and the plastic sights had been worn down like a chocolate bar in the July sun...but it worked good enough so he left it alone...kinda like the landing gear on a jet and the brakes on your kid's car.

    I am not like that. I have never taken a "skill above everything else" position, and have always noted that a piece of kit that is lacking in various areas will affect how good you can become. A man of average skill wanting to become a man of great skill is better advised to select a high quality weapon that will not stand in his way. Whether the reader thinks this new addition I have found is of benefit to them or not is up to them. I have found it is a beneficial thing and was impressed enough that I wrote this controversial information post.

    Like I said...more to follow periodically.


    Quote Originally Posted by ricco View Post
    "I don't understand the collective "gasp" at Gabe changing his stance"

    You don't, seriously

    Something that has been so adamantly condemned for so long is now suddenly thought so highly of that Gabe has put them on his carry pistols, you don't see how this is a bit confusing

    I'm sure I'm not the only one this morning that is wondering what paradigm shift is next
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricco View Post
    I'm sure I'm not the only one this morning that is wondering what paradigm shift is next
    I plan on wearing leather holsters, carrying old 1911s and referring to myself in the editorial "WE". You ready?
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    254
    I will confess freely my surprise at seeing this thread this morning, both at Gabe's conclusion re: thumb safeties on carry pistols and at some of the reactions to the news. I share Dorkface's non-emotional surprise, in that this conflicts significantly with other discussions of the subject I have seen on here, but heck, maybe there's a good argument for it that I haven't considered.

    So, Gabe: Would you describe in a little more detail what has driven you from your previous outlook on thumb safeties for carry pistols to your now-current position? The initial post gave the reasoning in support of using a safety but not much rebuttal to your previous stance. What factor(s) made you change your mind?

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
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    254
    Quote Originally Posted by Faramir2 View Post
    I will confess freely my surprise at seeing this thread this morning, both at Gabe's conclusion re: thumb safeties on carry pistols and at some of the reactions to the news. I share Dorkface's non-emotional surprise, in that this conflicts significantly with other discussions of the subject I have seen on here, but heck, maybe there's a good argument for it that I haven't considered.

    So, Gabe: Would you describe in a little more detail what has driven you from your previous outlook on thumb safeties for carry pistols to your now-current position? The initial post gave the reasoning in support of using a safety but not much rebuttal to your previous stance. What factor(s) made you change your mind?
    Posted this while other comments were already getting in here. Obviously the initial answer is that it simply worked and seems to have some additional safety advantages. Anything else that pressed you this direction?

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    3,291
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    I plan on wearing leather holsters, carrying old 1911s and referring to myself in the editorial "WE". You ready?
    dv.jpg
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

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  7. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    USA
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    149
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    I plan on wearing leather holsters, carrying old 1911s and referring to myself in the editorial "WE". You ready?
    Shouldn't it be the REGAL “we”?

  8. #38
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    May 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faramir2 View Post
    So, Gabe: Would you describe in a little more detail what has driven you from your previous outlook on thumb safeties for carry pistols to your now-current position? The initial post gave the reasoning in support of using a safety but not much rebuttal to your previous stance. What factor(s) made you change your mind?
    1). I am not asking anyone to "do as I do". Simply saying what I found that is interesting and what you thought. It seems we have difficulty doing the latter without the former.

    2). Striker fired pistols are extremely easy to use. That is their advantage as well as disadvantage. I have always had that concern - but there was no good way to alter that other than to simply keep it holstered all the time. And I know that I am not alone in that as I have had discussions about that with many of the incredulous posters here.

    3). I have never been a 1911 guy. I owned one 1911 as a toy basically because I didn't carry it in CA pre-LE. I sold it to finance my first SIG P-226 back in 1987. If the reader is the sort whose manual dexterity disallows a safety mechanism (because they will miss it when they try to use it under duress) then this is not for them. But I submit that a hand that will miss a safety due to a lack of dexterity may be a hand that also fails to operate a short 3 pound trigger safely. As Papa noted...this is not a 1911 v Glock discussion.

    If a safety can be added that provides the benefits listed in Post #1, and does not detract the user from deploying the weapon quickly in realistic events, the safety if designed to be easy to access and disengage, and that user has the focus and intent to integrate its use into regular operation, I see no disadvantage to the addition.

    No reader need follow, but that is where I seem to be going with this.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Western WA
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    I think it's a healthy thing to revisit our ideas and conclusions. We may come to the same conclusions we have in the past but looking at the same problems from different angles and from a different vantage point has value.


    Things change. New equipment is introduced, new information comes to light. New training methods are introduced. We grow (hopefully), and make the best decision we can given the information we have at the time.

    I have many different ideas than when I was 20. And choices I made at 35 were based on me and my needs at 35. Those needs and capabilities change over time. That doesn't necessarily make my old conclusions wrong, just different from my needs and my capabilities today.

    What remains timeless is human nature...how we move, how we react under stress. As long as equipment, training, tactics, etc. remain consistent with human nature, I don't think there's necessarily a "wrong" answer. Some answers will work better for you, some will work better for me. We are all adults and can make up our own minds.

    I look at people I respect and trust and I take their counsel into consideration. Most of the time my conclusions are the same, sometimes they are different. No one knows MY needs like me...but I still bump my ideas up against those of others because I am not infallible. But I still make up my own mind.

    There's value to pistols with no manual safeties, and value to those with. And it's awesome that we have the choices that we do today.

    People are allowed to change their minds over time.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

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  10. #40
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    Mar 2011
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    Western WA
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    And gunfighting is not theology. The "rules" were not burned onto tablets on Mt. Sinai.

    I do think there are timeless fighting principles. I do my best to live, train and fight by those principles. I strive for eloquence in the language of violence. But I only speak as well as I can TODAY. With discipline I will speak better still next month, next year and so forth.

    I learn new stuff now and then. More often I'm reminded of things I've forgotten (there's lot to know). And it's not often but every now and then those things change some of my conclusions.

    Lately I've been doing some training with revolvers and lever actions. Do I think they are better than Glocks and Shotguns? NO. But there is value in the study.

    A principle I keep coming back to is ADAPTABILITY. A comfort with different tools, methods and ideas is just one measure of that.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

    Upcoming classes:

    Pistol Groundfighting, Kansas
    Pistol Groundfighting, Washington

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