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  1. #1
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    Default DUELING AS OLYMPIC SPORT

    1906-Olympics.jpg
    Funny how society changes. In many ways, the modern world offers such a great quality of life to everyone who is smart and disciplined enough to take advantage of it. But I think we had stronger and more courageous people in the past.

    Olympic dueling. Duelling was a sport at the 1906 Olympics and 1908 Olympics. In the 1906 Olympics, male competitors fired duelling pistols at plaster dummies from 20m and 30m.
    Gabriel Suarez

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  2. #2
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    How he's kitted out, it looks like he expects return fire.

    Now there's a thought: actual duelling with squib loads.

    Or UTM. Or Sims. Then incorporate movement....
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    How he's kitted out, it looks like he expects return fire.

    Now there's a thought: actual duelling with squib loads.

    Or UTM. Or Sims. Then incorporate movement....
    Olympic paintball, there we go.




    Ha, no. But really though...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faramir2 View Post
    Olympic paintball, there we go.


    Ha, no. But really though...
    You're not wrong... Look at what Olympic Fencing has done to the martial art of swordplay. Look at how excited the competitors get because they touched the other guy despite being touched themselves, and when if they were playing for blood both would be dead or severely injured. There is zero thought given to defense or staying alive.


    "If you find yourself in a fair fight you failed to properly prepare..."

    "History is the autobiography of a madman..."

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter76 View Post
    You're not wrong... Look at what Olympic Fencing has done to the martial art of swordplay. Look at how excited the competitors get because they touched the other guy despite being touched themselves, and when if they were playing for blood both would be dead or severely injured. There is zero thought given to defense or staying alive.
    Wait, you mean that fencing is unrealistic? Well there went my idea of writing a blog devoted to the lethality of the rapier as a tool for SWAT teams, when paired with mandatory foil training in the academy.

  6. #6
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    Anything martial that becomes a sport will sacrifice lethality for a better score. I will bet in street clothes, a well drilled Force On Force student will destroy the equally trained sport shooter.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faramir2 View Post
    Wait, you mean that fencing is unrealistic? Well there went my idea of writing a blog devoted to the lethality of the rapier as a tool for SWAT teams, when paired with mandatory foil training in the academy.
    I can't tell if you're just playing around or being intentionally sarcastic in your reply, but 'unrealistic' is situationally dependent... Classical fencing has close ties to Escrima, some styles closer than others, and few would dismiss FMA use. There are existing Spanish and Italian stick fighting styles that closely resemble Medieval longsword styles and against an opponent with a knife or a stick would be very effective. Among other systems I study Fiore's 'Armizare' and can adapt most of his teachings to any pole-type weapon under pressure. The gun may be the dominant weapon in the modern world but that doesn't mean the blade and stick have no relevance.

    As Gabe pointed out, turning a martial art into sport diminishes the effectiveness of the martial. My point was simply that sporting competition of fencing led to the disregard of the need to survive the encounter. Which when talking about gunplay is just as important.


    "If you find yourself in a fair fight you failed to properly prepare..."

    "History is the autobiography of a madman..."

  8. #8
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    There's a great movie on the topic that Gabe and I were talking about the other day. I don't recall the title but it discussed the rise and fall of the sword and that the martial understanding of the sword died out due to sport, outlawing of duels, and the advent of the pistol.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter76 View Post
    I can't tell if you're just playing around or being intentionally sarcastic in your reply, but 'unrealistic' is situationally dependent... Classical fencing has close ties to Escrima, some styles closer than others, and few would dismiss FMA use. There are existing Spanish and Italian stick fighting styles that closely resemble Medieval longsword styles and against an opponent with a knife or a stick would be very effective. Among other systems I study Fiore's 'Armizare' and can adapt most of his teachings to any pole-type weapon under pressure. The gun may be the dominant weapon in the modern world but that doesn't mean the blade and stick have no relevance.

    As Gabe pointed out, turning a martial art into sport diminishes the effectiveness of the martial. My point was simply that sporting competition of fencing led to the disregard of the need to survive the encounter. Which when talking about gunplay is just as important.
    Returning to serious talk for a moment: I'm playing around more than anything, with a touch of facetiousness thrown in (not meant to be biting/sarcastic, just a bit of fun). I agree with you that certain arts that employ blade or stick, or both together, have their place and value; alongside TKD, dabbling with a little BJJ and JKD, and to the extent I can, working real combative-style shooting and movement into recreational airsoft, I have also dabbled in Escrima and Arnis, so I have appreciation for the non-combustible weapons.

    My point was merely to make a bit of a joke about how disparate from actual fighting a sport form of what was originally a fighting system can become. Exhibit A, Olympic fencing, which is far more aggressive in its footwork and concerned about making a touch first, as opposed to using footwork judiciously to effect a killing stroke without getting injured or killed oneself while plying blades on the street, or Exhibit B, competitive shooting that is fun, no question, but who runs around with a pimped-out G34, spandex, and a low-ride OWB holster all day anyway (back to facetious)?

  10. #10
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    The facetious tone is partly what I was trying to develop with my comment about making a blog extolling the virtues of a rapier as a SWAT weapon--surely no one would actually take on such an idea seriously, given the obsolescence of the rapier 300-400 years ago.

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