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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by MesserMan View Post
    Given what the Army wants this thing for, I’m having a hard time understanding why they didn’t just go with the MP9, another excellent weapon made by Brugger and Thomet.
    Money most likey.
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  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    The MP9 is basically a gussied up Styer TMP. If I were a betting man, the choice has something to do with the manual of arms. Transitioning from an M4 to this new SMG will be far more economical in training hours as all the controls are very M4-esque and located in similar positions. This is one of the reasons that special units turned down the HKUMP45, because the manual of arms was so different from the M9, 1911, and Sig. This is also one of the reasons for a gradual step away from the MP5 platforms, when you have guys with thousands of hours on an AR platform it made more sense to make smaller M16s than to invest the training time on the MP5.

    ETA: With the small distribution of special weapon systems, and the high level of training, risk, and experience, you don't want to field something that requires a large amount of training to become confident/proficient with as the training time is more expensive than the weapons themselves. The shooters getting these issued aren't going to use them if they can't confidently put them in their cage and pull them out when the Role, Niche, Envelope is appropriate.
    Last edited by Greg Nichols; 06-12-2019 at 09:46 AM.
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  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    3,161
    The article says the purchase is 350 guns with the option to buy 1000 more. Help me understand, is that $2.5M for the full 1350 guns? I get it that there's magazines, accessories, manuals and training, but if it's only for the 350 guns that's over 7K per unit. If it's for the full 1350 it works out to about $1800, which seems OK.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    Third Coast
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    4,266
    Quote Originally Posted by Pict View Post
    The article says the purchase is 350 guns with the option to buy 1000 more. Help me understand, is that $2.5M for the full 1350 guns? I get it that there's magazines, accessories, manuals and training, but if it's only for the 350 guns that's over 7K per unit. If it's for the full 1350 it works out to about $1800, which seems OK.

    Well as a reference point , depending on supplier and need (remember those $600 toilet seats?) sometimes this is a way to create a money stream through at deniable outlet. Toilet seat didnt cost 600, the other 550 was tracked another project like the f-117 for example. but it doesnt show up anywhere else. The whole black project basket has to be funded somewhere, sometimes its through avenues like this, though 1800 per unit isnt too bad for military procurement with parts, mags etc.
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  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    Made it to Free America
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    Ive carried more SMGs in the real world then most and played with/owned more still. Yes the MP5 is a great and classic SMG; but remember the MP5 was designed with at least one asset being that troops familiar with the G3 series of HK guns would find the MP5 a "no brainer" for minimal training. Likewise the Colt SMG is externally at least and EXACT match for the M16 (M4), and internally its even simpler. Yes it cant be as compact because of the buffer tube; but modern "boutique" buffer systems, like the Honey Badger stocks reduce the buffer tube length. The Colt series of SMGs is every bit as good as the MP5, it just never got the Hollywood stamp of approval.

    That being said, a smaller SMG capable of being carried (worn) concealed, is a huge asset for EP work, especially in high threat zones. The question in my mind for a EP weapon is, "Will it be carried openly or concealed?" If open carry it desired or mandated, the size is less important; but when it is to be carried concealed then "SIZE MATTERS"

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