Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Third Coast
    Posts
    4,212

    Default Contest Manipulating Perception and reality

    Examples of perception/reality and external factors

    Netflix day was “Kursk, a submarine in troubled waters”. Followed by “ Russian submarine disaster”. One made in 2004 the next 7 years later. . While one might think that the later documentary would have more detail, the reverse is true. This isn’t a political rant, or a tinfoil conspiracy, go beyond that.

    This is how the narrative can change in a critical event and the behind the scenes things that occur. It is just a separated example that independently shows what we are talking about.

    The additional perspective comes from being able to talk to people that did the job, not in the above case but in others. My father texted me a while ago and told me to watch “ command and control” on Netflix . It is about an event in a Titan II silo. As any dutiful son would , I did and called him afterwards to discuss. You see, my dad was one of the youngest crew commanders in a Titan II silo and had the “inside scoop” on what went right, wrong, how things went wrong and corrective actions that could have been taken. We talked on the phone for over an hour.

    While I will never need the specific information, the give and take, and the discussion, was beneficial in other aspects of what we talk about here. I thought to myself, that this IS what we do here in WT, Let folks that have seen things go wrong, made things go right, and improved the outcomes of both, offer their lessons so that others don’t have quite the same steep learning curve.

    This is what makes WT unique, the folks here give you the parameters, offer advice for the outline. If your are interested, you can take a class and be immersed in the details that make the difference.

    We have mentioned before how a investigator, jury, and judge can be influenced by a variety of outside factors not directly in evidence to the case at hand. This gives an example of the from the “ what’s in it for me” perspective. It IS three hours of your time, but beyond a pretty good military documentary, and a good salvage program, it gives you insight into how the narrative can/will be manipulated, and how you need to guide the narrative to keep from getting arrested, and going beyond a grand jury.

    A direct example is a previously posted thread about a love triangle and dog on fire. Would it be a shoot scenario, and would it be justified. I took that example to our DA (who keeps a dog in the office) and got a “hell yes its justified” from the office, if the DA wasn’t a dog lover the answer would probably be different, the DA's perception changed the narrative of what was acceptable.
    Last edited by coastalcop; 05-29-2019 at 11:54 AM.
    NEVER CONFUSE GETTING LUCKY WITH GOOD TACTICS (unless you are at the bar)

    I'm not in the business of Losing

    A stab to the taint beats most of the mystical bullshit, most of the time

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,599
    Narrative is eloquence and eloquence is something we all need to develop to a fine edge.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    5,443
    Mine in bold

    Quote Originally Posted by coastalcop View Post
    Netflix day was “Kursk, a submarine in troubled waters”. Followed by “ Russian submarine disaster”. One made in 2004 the next 7 years later. . While one might think that the later documentary would have more detail, the reverse is true. This isn’t a political rant, or a tinfoil conspiracy, go beyond that.

    This is how the narrative can change in a critical event and the behind the scenes things that occur. It is just a separated example that independently shows what we are talking about.

    Certainly an example of how the narrative can change. But changing the narrative may or may not be on purpose. Obviously any story (article, documentary, book, etc.) is colored by the perspective of the storyteller. It may or may not be a changing of the truth, and might simply be based on the details (or lack thereof) the storyteller wanted to focus on.

    I find a lot of storytellers aren't so interested in the details - they are more interested in telling the story that they WANT. Someone interested in the truth tries to discern the details that are significant. But because shit gets complicated, most "official" stories don't include all the significant details. And of course people of goodwill can differ on what is significant.


    The additional perspective comes from being able to talk to people that did the job, not in the above case but in others. My father texted me a while ago and told me to watch “ command and control” on Netflix . It is about an event in a Titan II silo. As any dutiful son would , I did and called him afterwards to discuss. You see, my dad was one of the youngest crew commanders in a Titan II silo and had the “inside scoop” on what went right, wrong, how things went wrong and corrective actions that could have been taken. We talked on the phone for over an hour.

    That was a fascinating show, and sometime I'd love to hear the backstory your father shared.
    Great article.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,599
    Here is where we differ (among many others). The CCW-shut-up-and-call-your-lawyer group in essence allows the narrative to be written by others and have no control at all what it defines things as. We, as educated, first world men of excellence, who can speak with eloquence (as well as write with it as we are seeing here in the many contest submissions) choose to write our own narratives. And make no mistake...the narrative is written the moment you have fired your last shots.

    Truth has very little to do with it.
    It has more to do with who has the most compelling and believable story first.

    Let that sink into the brain.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    9,352
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    Here is where we differ (among many others). The CCW-shut-up-and-call-your-lawyer group in essence allows the narrative to be written by others and have no control at all what it defines things as. We, as educated, first world men of excellence, who can speak with eloquence (as well as write with it as we are seeing here in the many contest submissions) choose to write our own narratives. And make no mistake...the narrative is written the moment you have fired your last shots.

    Truth has very little to do with it.
    It has more to do with who has the most compelling and believable story first.

    Let that sink into the brain.
    I don't understand why someone would relinquish the influence and responsibility to others in what has the potential to become a life altering event.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    5,443
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    I don't understand why someone would relinquish the influence and responsibility to others in what has the potential to become a life altering event.
    People are afraid of what they don't know. Also there are many who "trust the system".
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Third Coast
    Posts
    4,212
    Brent, our discussion covered many areas, but at its root was how mindset drives action. Nuke Silos were part of Strategic Air Command , the unofficial motto is "To Err is Human, to forgive is not SAC policy

    Because of the nature of SAC, most crew were obsessive about their hole. On an IG inspection you could usually figure the main complaint on a Titan II silo was going to be "bread crumbs in the butter dish" as everything else was pristine.

    So pop when into his discussion that Maint. DID NOT go into his hole without pre discussing the tech order and each and every step involved. Then they would be on comm with the silo commander (Him) through each and every step. Micro managing outside resources when dealing with nukes is a positive thing. He was fit to be tied about the friggin tool foul up, using an outdated TO, and the decisions of the crew inside, he explained a few things they could have done after the initial errors to mitigate the issue, and was frothing when discussing some of the crews statements after the fact.

    That said "Mission First" drove most the crews. As an example of that, tests and drills were normal and expected, designed to make crews in the holes ready to deal with problems that could come up prelaunch and launch without Maint crews available. Some were step by step, some were table tops, some were designed to be "no win" to teach commanders when it was time to "call it" so that other operational silos could take over targets earlier (The "Total" exchange of nukes was never really in either the US or USSR plans)

    One such "no win" dad stated that he identified the error (this was described as "roleplaying" where you would access all the areas and state what you were doing, but NO button pushing/ valve turning, etc they werent breaking cards in these types of drills. ) So dad directs one of the crew into the tube to "turn a valve" .

    The rater was non-plussed according to Dad, stating that the result would kill the crew member. Dad's reply was "It would render the missile active and able to accomplish the mission" .The rater looked over the "conditions" sheet, discussed with other raters and determined that it would in fact make the missile able to launch, at the cost of the crew member.

    Dad then explained (which goes to perception and mindset), that every time they went in the hole, the entire crew knew that if a launch was ordered, either preemptive or retaliatory (not that they would know, and might in fact be lied to about it) everything they knew and loved was going to be dead shortly thereafter, the crew may or may not be for a short period after the launch. Either way, they were going to accomplish the mission because either way, the mission came first and no one would fail to turn that valve if ordered.

    These crews knew the stakes every day, made decisions every day, were selected and conditioned to do certain things, and were going to complete the mission. Their mindset differed from others in that either way they knew their family was dead the moment they got the order to turn keys, whether they launched or not (preemptive or retaliatory strikes were always targeted at silos as well by the USSR, as well as other strategic targets), turning a valve and dying to get your launch and get the folks that did yours is small potatoes.

    His mindset drove how I think and my values as a kid and to this day.

    pics are one of the real SAC logos, one of many "unofficial" SAC logos (the gauntlet holding a severed scrotum not a handfull of lightning), and my Dads squadron patch (four aces and a joker in the "hole")
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by coastalcop; 05-21-2019 at 11:30 AM.
    NEVER CONFUSE GETTING LUCKY WITH GOOD TACTICS (unless you are at the bar)

    I'm not in the business of Losing

    A stab to the taint beats most of the mystical bullshit, most of the time

  8. #8
    Command and Control was a great book, too. Recommend the read if you have the time.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •