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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    963
    https://d3protection.com/saps-and-blackjacks

    see above and look at the first three saps. 6” and 8 oz

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    The New Peoples Republic of Kolorado
    Posts
    163
    David at D3 makes excellent tools to solve these types of problems. The downside is of course they are not legal in most places, you have to ask yourself if this concerns you.
    The nice aspect of Jacks and saps is the movement, striking and target areas are similar to the use of a blade which many of you already know. I carry a small "fatty" flat sap every day.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    The Big Northeastern NPE
    Posts
    313
    I think saps are super cool, and I have looked at the ones linked above at D3 for years. But then I remember that, in NY at least, hitting someone with a sap will get me in more trouble than shooting them with my legal pistol, and the same trouble as shooting them with an illegal pistol. Given the laws where I live, less-than-lethal means fists or weapons of opportunity to a civilian. (OC is a grey area. I never cared for the stuff - as an EMT I've treated too many people who accidentally incapacitated themselves in addition to their target when deploying it!)

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    452
    You are right Cabe. I plan to be extremely disabled-Acting like the gazelle when the police arrive.

    I had only one Sensei that made it perfectly clear that his goal in training you was so that YOU COULD FIGHT.

    Living in the same tough neighborhood as most of his students he would carefully study how his senior students carried themselves outside the Dojo to see if the were easily scared or intimidated. If the were he would deem them to be "to soft" and not ready to move onto the next Grade. Seeing this as your real Grading, even if you made it through the Formal Grading with flying colors.

    OSSU!
    Elfie
    HALFMAN HALFCAR

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    17
    What are your thoughts on pepper gel? I like the lower chance of blowback, and the canister design lends itself for striking use.

    SABRE Red Pepper Gel Kit - Police Strength - with Practice Gel, 25 Bursts (Up to 5x Other Brands), 12-Foot (4M) Range, Training Video & Target https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AT3LMP4..._xpW6CbJA55QEW

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    257
    Quote Originally Posted by seeker_two View Post
    What are your thoughts on pepper gel? I like the lower chance of blowback, and the canister design lends itself for striking use.

    SABRE Red Pepper Gel Kit - Police Strength - with Practice Gel, 25 Bursts (Up to 5x Other Brands), 12-Foot (4M) Range, Training Video & Target https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AT3LMP4..._xpW6CbJA55QEW

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    I have seen it work well, but not used it personally.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    189
    Loving the discussion!

    Pepper fogger can be used as you retreat down a funnel, to deter pursuers, gel or foam cannot.

    I've carried 12GA flare pistols in front pockets in South Africa. Fixed blade at 4 o clock inside the pants and Fox pepper fogger in the light pocket of 511 shorts.

    In the car is a name brand paintball gun with pepper balls.

    The plan is: Minibus taxi disgorges thugs: shoot a flare into the still open door. Now they must decide whether to extinguish the taxi or mug you.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    9,363
    Quote Originally Posted by seeker_two View Post
    What are your thoughts on pepper gel? I like the lower chance of blowback, and the canister design lends itself for striking use.

    SABRE Red Pepper Gel Kit - Police Strength - with Practice Gel, 25 Bursts (Up to 5x Other Brands), 12-Foot (4M) Range, Training Video & Target https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AT3LMP4..._xpW6CbJA55QEW

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    I don't know much about the gel but it appears to work about the same as the old foam. There are a couple of disadvantages for having a semi-solid state, 1) you can't fog with it, sometimes in an enclosed space you can catch people in a fog. 2) if it's obstructed it's basically worthless, so if the guy has glasses on it becomes far less effective than the spray
    Last edited by Greg Nichols; 06-06-2019 at 01:09 PM.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    120
    Are there any rough guidelines on what types of physical force count as less than lethal? In particular for an able-bodied male to subdue a combative female that hasn't warranted lethal force yet?

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    9,363
    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar01 View Post
    Are there any rough guidelines on what types of physical force count as less than lethal? In particular for an able-bodied male to subdue a combative female that hasn't warranted lethal force yet?
    Sounds like dating to me.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

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