Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 53
  1. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central IN
    Posts
    780
    Greg, you date with chloroform and duct tape.
    Soli Deo Gloria

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    9,307
    my girlfriends sister chloroformed me the other day.

    What kind of sick person puts chloroform in their dirty underwear?
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,201
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    my girlfriends sister chloroformed me the other day.

    What kind of sick person puts chloroform in their dirty underwear?
    Don't kink shame people. Lol.
    Geek Warlord
    Dungeons & Dragons & Deadlifts

    Muscle Wizard Casts: Fist


    CRG-1 DPS
    CRG-2 CRG x 2
    SGF-1 Shotgun Gunfighting
    Trauma care under fire
    Spetsnaz Sniper
    HRO-5 Terrorist & Active Shooter Interdiction
    HRO-6 CQB: Fighting in Structures
    CRG-4 Force on Force
    HRO-5 Terrorist & Active Shooter Interdiction - 3 day
    TWOTU edition
    Trauma Medicine for the CCW Operator
    Pistol Ground Fighting (Taint Shooting Progressions)

    TWOTU since May 2015

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,513
    Like a lot of us, I used to jog before sprinting was born out to be better. When I jogged I carried an Asp or a stick. I put smackdown on a few dogs who's owners didn't dig the whole leash law thing. I still see some value to the sorts of tools we are talking about in this thread for that sort of thing. That's a specific circumstance where carrying a tool like that works.
    I like blackjacks and brass knuckles. I have a couple, but today I keep them as curios. Today, where I live that sort of weapon doesn't make practical sense.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,119
    Had a long rambling post.

    Deleted it.

    One advantage to a SAP or Baton is that the lethality is in *how* you use it, and as a civilian it would allow you to scale your response according to the threat. If you are facing someone who is just a bit more rambunctious than they need to be you can focus their attention on the seriousness of the matter with a bit of a tap to the meat of the upper arm or thigh. You can use it to attack the hands or other extremities without striking the head or face.

    Yeah, I have my fists, elbows, knees and feet (head shoulders knees and toes knees and toes), but as the "rules of land warfare" remind us "if the enemy is in range, so are you". Having a *bit* of a standoff reduces my risk. I don't *want* to get into a fight with someone. They may be better than me, or they may get lucky.

    Also, if I know as the scenario unfold that the person I'm dealing with isn't one of the "hard core", but that I'll need to restrain them, or obtain some sort of compliance short of breaking bones some "less than lethal" tools will give me that granularity.

    I admit as a PC that "restraining" someone, or "gaining compliance" could be a tricky thing legally, and I'm not sure where those lines are. However when doing nothing is not an option, and shooting them seems excessive, careful use of a LtL tool might make things go smoother.


    A former poster here once "de-escalated" a threat on a college campus just by presenting his baton (he was a campus cop at the time). Yeah the problem child wasn't a "hard core" type, or maybe he was and just didn't want to go to the hospital that day.

    Another cop I used to know attempted to use one to obtain compliance by putting a solid hit on the thigh of the person he wished to have a conversation with. Didn't work. Neither did the pepper spray. Some people you REALLY don't want to get in a fight with.

    Do service dogs count as less than lethal? Maybe I should get Dog bite trained...

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    NC for now
    Posts
    21
    I've been tased, and it hurt like hell........ Probe to right shoulder blade and other to left calf of leg, it jacked me up good..,....Not likely that perfect spread would be achieved during an attack........ Also, I have deployed a taser on duty twice with poor results. Once to a cocaine amped individual that had incredible human strength, I lost skin from my knees and shins that night..... Another had too much clothing to make good contact (I should've known better). The smart people with the Supreme Court has now ruled for Leo's that OC and taser may only be used as a defense tool, not for compliance. So the baton is my go to from the belt if less than lethal is needed. No longer carry my issued OC..... Taser, it would depend but less than likely I'd use it.

    Civilian use or off duty taser, no way would I trust it. I've seen these tools work and I've felt the results of what they can inflict....... I'd say the black eye I received from a stick when I was a teen is way more effective, I could not see anything for several seconds. Not to mention the one holding the stick had lots more left if they'd wanted to inflict more damage.

    It'd be bad for someone to get a false sense of security carrying a taser or OC much like they can by carrying a firearm without training. A lack of understanding their own capabilities with the weapons plus the possible failures and the unknown capability of an assailant.

    An argument could be made to support anything given different circumstances. People definitely are buying OC and civilian tasers, I see them in cars often. Drug dealers carry these items also on occasion.

    Civilian tasers do run like 30 seconds after deployment, that would be a rough ride if good contact is made. Department issued is 5 seconds and each delivery is logged electronically. At least with the baton there's no electronic log, not yet at least.
    Last edited by millergun; 06-11-2019 at 12:37 PM.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Under the Black Flag
    Posts
    328
    It's like I told the XO. If you can legally spray them or zap them you can shoot them. So shoot them. A lot.

    She has OC, but it is for breaking contact only, not stopping bad things.

    Like Miller above I have taken the ride, and I have used baton, OC and taser at work. When it's for real, hands fist and feet come into play and end it fast.

    That's just my two cents on the pile...

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    9,307
    Quote Originally Posted by m48shooter View Post
    It's like I told the XO. If you can legally spray them or zap them you can shoot them. So shoot them. A lot.

    She has OC, but it is for breaking contact only, not stopping bad things.

    Like Miller above I have taken the ride, and I have used baton, OC and taser at work. When it's for real, hands fist and feet come into play and end it fast.

    That's just my two cents on the pile...
    This is pretty much the way I see it. As a non-leo you basically have 3 conflicts that you will encounter 1). is a mouth problem, talk your way out if you want to. 2). is a hand problem, you need distance or to crack someone in the mouth or kick a leg out. 3). a gun problem, pretty self explanatory.

    What you don't have is a standard for the escalation of levels of force, a legal requirement to take someone into custody, utilize a less than lethal option if there's a clear disparity of force. I see sprays, batons, and tazers as options for LEO to subdue a subject to take into custody or for those too lazy, untrained, or weak to throw hands.
    Last edited by Greg Nichols; 06-12-2019 at 07:25 AM.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    NC for now
    Posts
    21
    For a civilian to carry OC, perhaps a good choice may be a water based 2% pepper that shoots a stream rather than fog, it won't fog back onto the person deploying it......Foam "probably" not the best choice either, the assailant can wipe it off and throw it back.....There are small powerful cans like this available that work upside down the same as right side up and squirt 20 or so feet. Be aware the stream will penetrate skin and pierce eyeballs under 2 or 3 feet.... A lot of options are available............For me off duty and in the gray, I carry a good blade, a good handgun, and my hands.
    Last edited by millergun; 06-11-2019 at 05:39 PM.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Under the Black Flag
    Posts
    328
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    This is pretty much the way I see it. As a non-leo you basically have 3 conflicts that you will encounter 1). is a mouth problem, talk your way out if you want to. 2). is a hand problem, you need distance or to crack someone in the mouth or kick a leg out. 3). a gun problem, pretty self explanatory.

    What you don't have is a standard for the escalation of levels of force, a legal requirement to take someone into custody, utilize a less than lethal option if there's a clear disparity of force. I see sprays, batons, and tazers as options for LEO to subdue a subject to take into custody or for those to lazy, untrained, or weak to throw hands.
    I agree 100% Greg. There are way too many who don't or can't fight when needed. Bat belt dependents. Keep it KISS, keep it violent, keep it fast. Overwhelming violence and aggression keep the extra bodies from jumping in.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •