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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    OKC
    Posts
    383
    Another piece of gear I like is a half pound brass hammer. It's non-ferrous so there is no problem taking it through metal detectors and it rides AIWB just like my Glock. Finally, you can go to any hardware store in the world and buy a heavy allen wrench about the size of your pinky. It's about the best fist load/yawara I have ever found. The hammer would easily kill if used against the head but would be a strong deterrent and likely stopper used anywhere else. It would likely take hard work to kill a man with the allen wrench, he'd have to be unconcious first unless you hit him in some fluke way.
    Last edited by Sleestak; 05-20-2019 at 09:54 AM.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    93
    I carry small impact weapons to work since I can't carry a pistol so they are relative in a limited fashion to me. I also tend to carry impact weapons, not a sap, in states I can't legally carry. If a sap was available to me, I'm not sure I would carry it. I prefer the dual use items. I have an altar boy and the large bottle opener and the scribe which I absolutely love. To me most people are looking for something fancy in a non firearm weapon. Simple is better, any blunt object can be a deadly weapon if used correctly.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    211
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    The idea is to not have to worry about any court of law since victims don't go there except as a witness. I expect the victim status is easier to sell with having shot someone than in having caved in a skull.
    In today's litigious society, victims of assault sometimes do find themselves in a court of law. Don't you offer a course dealing with shooting investigations? Is it easier to sell shooting someone than clubbing them in the head? Use of force to include deadly force is the same regardless of the tool used in my opinion. Regardless, you are gonna need competent representation. You judge every case individually and the what ifs are for forum debate here. I will continue to carry one since as I said it doesn't take up much room and will use what I have available to me if the time comes.
    The same criminals that aren't afraid of the sight of a club are neither afraid of the gun and there have been plenty of instances of people eating their gun because they did not pull the trigger when they should have. Not saying that is an issue with members here.
    In the end, there is not much new under the sun. Clubs have their place in today's defense world just like guns in my opinion.
    The brass hammer is a great idea. Have you gone thru TSA with that? There is a reason a ball peen hammer is on the floor of my personal car and it ain't dents.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    311
    I was told once by a retired Texas Ranger,that he considered knives and impact weapons as tools of criminals and riff-raff. “Gentlemen carry guns”


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    "The fundamental demand of warfare is killing.You kill your enemies until they surrender or until they're all dead".-Lt.Col Ralph Peters

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,518
    Sharkey, you seem to have made up your mind. Good for you...drive on. But you are mistaken to think the next step after a fight is court. That is what the Aftermath Mafia wants you to believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkey View Post
    In today's litigious society, victims of assault sometimes do find themselves in a court of law. Don't you offer a course dealing with shooting investigations? Is it easier to sell shooting someone than clubbing them in the head? Use of force to include deadly force is the same regardless of the tool used in my opinion. Regardless, you are gonna need competent representation. You judge every case individually and the what ifs are for forum debate here. I will continue to carry one since as I said it doesn't take up much room and will use what I have available to me if the time comes.
    The same criminals that aren't afraid of the sight of a club are neither afraid of the gun and there have been plenty of instances of people eating their gun because they did not pull the trigger when they should have. Not saying that is an issue with members here.
    In the end, there is not much new under the sun. Clubs have their place in today's defense world just like guns in my opinion.
    The brass hammer is a great idea. Have you gone thru TSA with that? There is a reason a ball peen hammer is on the floor of my personal car and it ain't dents.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    257
    Coming from the LE side Gabe is absolutely correct. If a civilian hits someone in the head/face/neck with a sap he is probably going to be looking at adw charges. In my experience it's going to be unpleasant at trial, much more than shooting someone. Part of the problem here in Oklahoma is the law. Expandable batons are of somewhat dubious legal status along with saps and knuckles. There is no particular reason I can see for a civilian to carry them. If I hit someone in the head with a baton on duty I will have some serious explaining to do. As far as a use of force continuum tool for civilians OC would be better, or something to swing that obviously not primarily a weapon. Either way they are going to look suspect to a prosecutor and the responding officer. If the individual you strike dies they will probably look at it much harder than they would if the cause of death was gunfire. Inside of your home maybe not so much, but there is no reason to arm yourself inside the home with anything other than a firearm. Speaking from personal experience, and knowing that some of the old guys at my agency swear that saps and blackjack are amazing, I dont feel like a civilian carrying one is a good idea, or worth the risk. Get your permit, carry your pistol, and learn to throw a punch. If you are really worried about another option then buy some decent pepper spray.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,518
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    OKC
    Posts
    383
    The brass hammer is a great idea. Have you gone thru TSA with that?

    No way! The rattan cane is the go anywhere item. Everything else is obtained on arrival. I have taken it through the metal detector going into an NBA game though.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    790
    Quote Originally Posted by Sleestak View Post
    The brass hammer is a great idea. Have you gone thru TSA with that?

    No way! The rattan cane is the go anywhere item. Everything else is obtained on arrival. I have taken it through the metal detector going into an NBA game though.
    There was a time about 2 decades ago when I needed a cane for mobility (GSW recovery). So I figured what the hell, might as well get something stoudt, so I had Mark Shuey make me one out of hickory heart. But the thing attracts attention from those who know what it is.

    Personally, I don't consider the cane that I have as viable for EDC, absent mobility issues (at least not for me).

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1
    I originally got an ASP baton to give me something intermediate between empty hands and using a gun after having some stuff stolen from outside the apartment I was living in at the time. But after reading up on case law on what constitutes a "deadly weapon" and how broadly it can be applied, I realized that I pretty much would need the same level of justification as if I was going to use a gun or knife. Now the only time I carry it is when taking walks in case I have to deal with a vicious dog, and I keep it in my hand for immediate use. I've never had anyone ask me about, so I suspect most people think it is a flashlight. My thought is that I could use it against a dog without all the paperwork that using a firearm would entail. I've only deployed it once, and the sound and motion was enough to get the dog to run away. On another occasion, I used a stick to repeatedly push a dog away, and a baton would probably be good for that situation as well. I would note a couple articles by Greg Ellifritz on defense if you got caught up in a protest that turns violent where he recommended a knife, pepper spray or a small impact weapon because (i) an attacker would probably not be highly motivated and could be driven off more easily, and (ii) it would not attract the attention that displaying or using a firearm would.
    Last edited by Greg Nichols; 05-21-2019 at 09:57 AM.

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