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  1. #21
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    Sep 2013
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    Northern California
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    277
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    Noted in the article this guy was a vet.

    I've found in the military as well as with LEOs, the public's perception and their own perception of their skill, experience, and knowledge is generally far below what they believe it to be when looking among the "Average Joes". I find that those who are more specialized i.e. Rangers, SF, SWAT, CT, tend to be skilled and experienced and those skills and experiences lead them to always ask questions and discuss, in depth, options and ways to improve.
    This is pretty true. Especially about the average cop being thought of (by the public and very often themselves) as having far more expertise than they actually do. And it often get them into serious trouble.

    Unfortunately, there is also some truth to that among SWAT/SRT in law enforcement, especially in those agencies where SWAT is a part-time/collateral assignment and the department is more focused on “community oriented policing” and liability reduction than they are on actual Law EnFORCEment. (Caps intentional.)

    On both teams I was on, there were about 1/4 of us who were very serious about our role. We trained on our own time and dime, worked out together, went to the range on days off together, etc. Then there was maybe half the team who stayed in shape, put out effort at Team (as in paid) training days, but other than hitting the gym did not train on their own. Then there was the bottom 1/4, who barely passed the physical/weapons quals and put out the minimum required effort on training days. But those were the ones who would walk around with “SWAT” pins on their uniforms, and their jacked-up trucks were covered in gun/tactical porn stickers. Always referred to themselves as SWAT “Operators” even after having it explained to them what that word actually means and who it specifically refers to in the Military. And when they showed up at training they looked like the Blackhawk catalog had thrown up on them.

    The teammates I worked with who came out of Military Special Operations were often be frustrated with the lack of consequences for barely meeting what many of us thought were too low of Team standards as well as the attitude of the SWAT pin on a uniform being more important than actual capabilities.

    But their experience in Military Special Operations was often a double-edged sword in this aspect: They were frustrated at the low standards, lack of consequence, and overall myopic, provincial attitude on the team; and they were willing to work even harder to try and make up for it.

    At the same time the discipline that had been instilled in them during their Military careers had made them less likely to challenge the Chain of Command and more willing to accept and go along with those issues.
    VIRES HONOR VIRTUS FIDES

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Phoenix, Arizona
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    9,498
    I could see that.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
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    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

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  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    Beyond The Wall
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter Ready View Post
    I wouldn’t be so hard on the gun community so long as they didn’t vote for Obama or the Hildebeast. The enemy of my enemy could be my “friend”.

    We need someone to draw the attention of the bad guy while we get to work.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    What we don't need is some shitforbrains dropping his tuned Zimmerman special out of his $9.99 "holster" and shooting someone we care about. The "bad guy" may just be some asshat well within his rights to be what he is, but also stupid and unskilled.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South Shore of Lake Erie
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    215
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    What we don't need is some shitforbrains dropping his tuned Zimmerman special out of his $9.99 "holster" and shooting someone we care about. ....
    Based on my upper middle class suburban existence this is a bigger threat to me and family then say home invasion, random street attack, stick up, carjack, bar fight etc. What I see going down in local gun shops and public ranges is downright frightening. “...there is now a record 667,000 active Ohio CHL’s” so that’s 1 in 13 people here with a license to carry. Ain’t no way 25% are trained.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Midwest
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    2,420
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragsbo View Post
    As far as being a VET makes you a weapons expert, I cringe when I hear that too. I know during the 3 years I was active duty Marine, I touched a pistol I think 2 times.
    Agreed. I was far more familiar with firearms than most of my Navy brethren. Part of that was the fact that I grew up in a gun family; part of that was that I was part of some specially-selected groups/detachments. However, I didn't realize how much I didn't know until I discovered WT/SI.
    Waitin' for a squeeze...

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  6. #26
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    May 2000
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    Beyond The Wall
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catalina View Post
    Based on my upper middle class suburban existence this is a bigger threat to me and family then say home invasion, random street attack, stick up, carjack, bar fight etc. What I see going down in local gun shops and public ranges is downright frightening. “...there is now a record 667,000 active Ohio CHL’s” so that’s 1 in 13 people here with a license to carry. Ain’t no way 25% are trained.
    Yup. A credible analogy is that anyone that wants to drive an F150 on the freeway need only pay a fee, the price of the truck, and off they go. This is a reality and it can't be ignored. I know all the counter arguments but I am beginning to think that sloppy gun people with cheap crap guns and cheap ass holsters (if any) are a clearer and more present danger than an ISIS tango.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  7. #27
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    Oct 2005
    Location
    Utah
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    1,037
    Back to the original story. There is so much information missing it is hard to tell what happened. The result is obvious and tragic. The path to that result makes little sense. The reporting/statements (shot in eye by gun in pocket) just don’t pass my sniff test. No follow up articles with more/different information.

    Anyone around Houston have helpful additional information? Police report?
    “Men of energy of character must have enemies; because there are two sides to every question, and taking one with decision, and acting on it with effect, those who take the other will of course be hostile in proportion as they feel that effect.” —Thomas Jefferson (1817)

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    North Alabama
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    87
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    What we don't need is some shitforbrains dropping his tuned Zimmerman special out of his $9.99 "holster" and shooting someone we care about. The "bad guy" may just be some asshat well within his rights to be what he is, but also stupid and unskilled.
    Case in point from al.com:

    Gun in pocket of 74-year-old substitute teacher discharges in 1st-grade Alabama classroom
    By Carol Robinson | crobinson@al.com

    A 74-year-old substitute teacher is behind bars after a gun in his pocket discharged inside a first-grade classroom Friday.

    The incident happened midday at Blountsville Elementary School, said Blount County Sheriff Mark Moon. Blount County District Attorney Pamela Casey said one student was struck by a fragment and checked out by the school nurse.

    Moon said the teacher - Henry Rex Weaver – had the gun in his pocket when it discharged. There were students in the classroom at the time.

    “It (the sound) alerted administrators,’’ Moon said. “He was detained until we could get him in our jail.”

    Moon said authorities are investigating. He is charged with reckless endangerment, third-degree aggravated assault and possession of a firearm on school grounds.

    “Obviously I’m concerned about a substitute teacher bring a gun to school,’’ the sheriff said, “and what we can do to prevent that in the future.”

    This story will be updated as more information becomes available.
    "When you are hungry, it is foolish to hunt a tiger when there are plenty of sheep to be had." – Baader-Meinhof slogan

  9. #29
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    May 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beoceorl View Post
    Case in point from al.com:
    I am sure the Snake Flag members of the Bundy Brigade will be up in arms about said fuckhead's rights. Let me say this...to all asshats with cheap guns carried carelessly in public.

    If you drop your shit and it goes off, you had better pray to whatever deity you believe in that the bullet has already killed you.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,717
    Idiots with guns are bad juju, but I think trainers like you, Gabe, have made a pretty huge impact in terms of gun safety and probably contributed to saving multiple lives, and not just those of who you've trained. Accidental gun deaths in the US are less than a third today of what they were in 1980 while the number of gun owners has skyrocketed. I took my brother and nephews out to a gravel pit to go shooting several years ago and listened to my brother, who is not a shooter and who has never taken a firearms class in his life, give a credible "4 rules" speech to his two boys. As flawed as Cooper's four rules may be, it made me realize that gun safety information and awareness has permeated our culture more than a little. When in Europe on a trip in the early 2000s I could easily spot Americans in the airport. They were the ones who cringed or started to duck when the airport security officers would sweep them with their sub machine guns.
    "Public employee unions are an inherently seditious construct"
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    "Zen? Meh! Who needs it? All that effort to achieve nothingness and what do you got? Bupkis!

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