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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    299

    Default Questions about testosterone problems

    Ok, an update and question. I started testosterone injections back in early October. My free T was 4.8. It came back up to 15.5, which is just barely in the "normal" range (15-25). Increased the dose, it went up again to 17.6. But then for some reason it dropped down to 15.5 again. Upped the dose, getting lab results in the next few days. Here are my questions:

    1. Why would it drop like that? Could it be all the extra hard workouts? My workouts almost doubled from what I was doing months ago when it was 17.6.
    2. I can't figure out why I have so little drive. I mean drive to work out, sex drive, life drive? I "function" in each aspect, just don't feel that youthful drive for any of it.
    3. Does the real magic kick in at a range of 23-25 or something? I really need to feel better.

    This is frustrating because weeks where I need to go for lab work, it's 3 hrs. round trip in traffic, gas money, and so far several thousand dollars spent over the course of 5 months. I'm really starting to wonder about testosterone therapy at this point. Sure, I feel a little stronger and more endurance to a point, but it's
    turning out to be far from the fountain of youth everyone seems to talk about. I'm really getting disappointed because it's costly and time consuming and for what? To still feel far less than 100%?

    Is that the problem though? Is it just that being in the low end of normal isn't enough and it really doesn't give you that ZING! for life until it hits the upper range? Got me starting to worry here.
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    OK...I am not a doc and have not been at a Holiday Inn in a few years...but.

    The main gauge is how you feel. My guy tells me he has some guys feel great at 750 T and others feel terrible. It is an individual matter. The free T - there are many labs and each does it slightly different so see what they used as a measure. A good Rule Of Thumb I was told is free T should be in the neighborhood of 10% of your total T.

    I don't know if that is right...but was told as much by some guys that should know a thing or two.

    The other factor is Estradiol (I think it is E2). Many guys want to eradicate E and that is a mistake...but if you are feeling like that your E may be high. Even if its a little high, and you feel great (and have to take down things to be able to walk) most knowledgeable docs will leave E alone. But if its high AND you feel bad, it may need some support to keep it down.
    Gabriel Suarez

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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    693
    Ghost,
    Did your labs include sex hormone binding globulin? How often and at what dose are you injecting? How many days after last injection was each of those free T levels taken? The 17 and 15 readings are only about 11% different. Oil based Testosterone has a half life of 8 days so its going to be a little different depending on how long after the last injection you draw blood. You shouldn't notice of much of a change between 15 and 17.
    You said your workouts doubled so you must of felt better at some point, right? Its also not a magic bullet youll still get tired, worn out etc. If you do enough work.

    I'd look up SHBG and ways to reduce it.


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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    299
    Gabe wrote:

    The other factor is Estradiol (I think it is E2). Many guys want to eradicate E and that is a mistake...but if you are feeling like that your E may be high. Even if its a little high, and you feel great (and have to take down things to be able to walk) most knowledgeable docs will leave E alone. But if its high AND you feel bad, it may need some support to keep it down.
    So far, the lab is showing my estradiol in the perfect range. I forget the number but they said it's definitely at the proper level - not too high, not too low. So I'm assuming it's not that.
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
    - Toshitsugo Takamatsu

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    299
    Chipw wrote:

    Did your labs include sex hormone binding globulin? How often and at what dose are you injecting? How many days after last injection was each of those free T levels taken? The 17 and 15 readings are only about 11% different. Oil based Testosterone has a half life of 8 days so its going to be a little different depending on how long after the last injection you draw blood. You shouldn't notice of much of a change between 15 and 17.
    They do check the SHBG levels, those are also in good range. They're using the bio-identical testosterone and I'm now injecting at...180, I think we just boosted it up to a few weeks ago. They said the max limit for injections is usually 250. I usually do injections on Monday afternoon and labs (every 4 weeks or so) I end up doing on Monday as well (so I can pick up a few weeks supply, do labs, and knock out 2 birds with 1 stone). So it's 7 days after my last injection when I take my labs.

    You said your workouts doubled so you must of felt better at some point, right? Its also not a magic bullet youll still get tired, worn out etc. If you do enough work.
    Yeah, I guess I can say that. I'm just not sure if the workouts are harder, longer and better now because of the T shots or just because I've been building them up over the past year and making pretty decent gains. Is it just me building up, or is it the T working? Not sure I can tell.
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
    - Toshitsugo Takamatsu

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    299
    Side note: the docs also make sure I also inject HCG (Human chorionic gonadotropin ) so that my body continues to make its own testosterone.
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
    - Toshitsugo Takamatsu

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    693
    Diet on point? Getting enough vitamins, vitamin D especially? It sounds like your a little depressed. Check out something like testo-gain from douglaslabs. Its not going to boost your test because your on trt but it may boost you mood by boosting your dopamine levels.

    Personally, i like once weekly injection and intermuscular as well, but the prevailing wisdom now says split the weekly dose into 2 injections and do subQ with an insulin needle. Id rather pin with a 1/2inch 25 gage needle. Takes to long to fill those insulin needles.
    Im actually off TRT now, i wanted to make sure i could still function without it. So far so good, ill probably go back on in the spring.



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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    299
    Diet is impeccable, and vitamin D levels have gone way up. They were at 65 or so last we checked. I expect by now they're in the 70s. Should know in a few days when the labs come back. I'm going to ask them about the sub-q injections. They seem to think IM is better overall, but I was reading an article at TNation about sub-q being better. Not sure I'm convinced yet. I inject in the glutes (it was so clumsy and sometimes sore in the delts).
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
    - Toshitsugo Takamatsu

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1976 View Post
    Diet is impeccable, and vitamin D levels have gone way up. They were at 65 or so last we checked. I expect by now they're in the 70s. Should know in a few days when the labs come back. I'm going to ask them about the sub-q injections. They seem to think IM is better overall, but I was reading an article at TNation about sub-q being better. Not sure I'm convinced yet. I inject in the glutes (it was so clumsy and sometimes sore in the delts).
    Sub-Q yielded much better results for me, and MUCH easier to self administer
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    299
    Coastalcop wrote:

    Sub-Q yielded much better results for me, and MUCH easier to self administer
    To me it doesn't matter as far as doing the injection, IM or SubQ. One isn't easier than the other to me. But how was it better for you sub-q? Did your levels come up faster?
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
    - Toshitsugo Takamatsu

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