Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 67
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    301
    JoeO wrote:

    As a civilian- I thought the decision to carry a firearm-REQUIRED the decision to kill to be well settled.
    Why else carry it?
    You would think! But I know people who've gotten their concealed carry license then told me they don't carry because they don't want to ever have to shoot anyone. WTF? I thought I'd entered the Twilight Zone when I heard that.

    I carry a knife because I can use it for lots of things - cutting seat belts in an accident, opening a can of oil, cutting open a bag of nuts (the really tear-resistant package types), I can use it to scrape ice off from between my car door and window when it freezes shut when it gets snowy and icy, and yes, I can use it to stop and/or kill a bad guy who's trying to kill me.

    I carry parachute cord because can use it to tied down my car hood if the catch breaks and it blows open, I can use to replace a broken shoe-lace, I can use it to make a tourniquet, and yes, I can use it to strangle a bad guy who's trying to kill me.

    But why do I carry my gun? Well...I can use it for one thing really - shooting bad guys who are trying to kill me (or other innocents). It has no other practical use in every day life in the city while out and about.

    I just don't get people who think killing someone is some sort of horrible thing. If the person you're shooting is a sub-human scumbag who's trying to take your life or other innocent lives, then he's not worthy of having his own life. Screw him. But...some people can't go there.

    A friend and I once taught rape prevention classes in North Carolina. I was describing how to use your thumbs to gouge out an attacker's eyes. One woman gasped and said: "But, but...you mean literally tear his eyes out of his head? But, but...he'll be blind for life."

    I replied: "No, because after you gouge his eyes out I want you to find something heavy and hard and smash him across the head and neck till he stops moving."

    She almost fainted. Then I described how to twist and tear off his testicles, and she gasped again and said: "I couldn't do those things to another human being!"

    I replied: "He's not a human being, he's a scumbag piece of shit rapist."

    When she argued that no way could she do that to someone else ("some poor woman's son" were her exact words if I remember correctly), I told her there was a final option..."Lay back and enjoy it, honey, and then light up a cigarette. Good luck with the rest of your life." She stormed out, the others laughed then asked: "So how does that testicle ripping thing work?" with such glee that I involuntarily crossed my legs. Some good women in that class, but one idiot.
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
    - Toshitsugo Takamatsu

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Used to be E.TX but now Kingman AZ, and now back in Texas
    Posts
    1,648
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1976 View Post
    JoeO wrote:



    You would think! But I know people who've gotten their concealed carry license then told me they don't carry because they don't want to ever have to shoot anyone. WTF? I thought I'd entered the Twilight Zone when I heard that.

    I carry a knife because I can use it for lots of things - cutting seat belts in an accident, opening a can of oil, cutting open a bag of nuts (the really tear-resistant package types), I can use it to scrape ice off from between my car door and window when it freezes shut when it gets snowy and icy, and yes, I can use it to stop and/or kill a bad guy who's trying to kill me.

    I carry parachute cord because can use it to tied down my car hood if the catch breaks and it blows open, I can use to replace a broken shoe-lace, I can use it to make a tourniquet, and yes, I can use it to strangle a bad guy who's trying to kill me.

    But why do I carry my gun? Well...I can use it for one thing really - shooting bad guys who are trying to kill me (or other innocents). It has no other practical use in every day life in the city while out and about.

    I just don't get people who think killing someone is some sort of horrible thing. If the person you're shooting is a sub-human scumbag who's trying to take your life or other innocent lives, then he's not worthy of having his own life. Screw him. But...some people can't go there.

    A friend and I once taught rape prevention classes in North Carolina. I was describing how to use your thumbs to gouge out an attacker's eyes. One woman gasped and said: "But, but...you mean literally tear his eyes out of his head? But, but...he'll be blind for life."

    I replied: "No, because after you gouge his eyes out I want you to find something heavy and hard and smash him across the head and neck till he stops moving."

    She almost fainted. Then I described how to twist and tear off his testicles, and she gasped again and said: "I couldn't do those things to another human being!"

    I replied: "He's not a human being, he's a scumbag piece of shit rapist."

    When she argued that no way could she do that to someone else ("some poor woman's son" were her exact words if I remember correctly), I told her there was a final option..."Lay back and enjoy it, honey, and then light up a cigarette. Good luck with the rest of your life." She stormed out, the others laughed then asked: "So how does that testicle ripping thing work?" with such glee that I involuntarily crossed my legs. Some good women in that class, but one idiot.
    Well there are some people out there that are just low hanging fruit.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Hey.. Why not join the Army? It's free!!

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Palm Beach County, Florida
    Posts
    165
    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter Ready View Post
    Itís a good read on killing and murder. It appears there are fewer meat eaters in the heat of battle than expected.

    The last paragraph reveals the writerís conceitó many of us are better trained than the average policeman who trains rarely and qualifies yearly. Killing the bad guy is the purpose of carrying a firearm. The defense minded crowd will be reacting out of fear and will be at a disadvantage.

    If there is a threat and action is justified (or preclusion is immoral or impossible), then the worries of the defense minded crowd are irrational.

    Turning gunmen into killers and meat eaters- this is a worthy goal.





    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    "Killing a bad guy is the purpose of carrying a firearm". I find it hard to agree with this statement as it was written. I carried a Glock 19 as my duty weapon for over 15 years here in Florida and yes, I had what I consider good training and I had to qualify every year. I also had K-9 training and always had my dog in my patrol vehicle almost always. I also consider myself very lucky to never having to use my weapon in a deadly situation. I retired in 2009 but I still and will always carry a weapon for self defense. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around that statement because during all these years, I never once thought of killing a bad guy is the purpose of carrying a firearm! It's just my opinion concerning the use f firearms! THANKS

  4. #44
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,772
    Mine

    Quote Originally Posted by SK2344 View Post
    "Killing a bad guy is the purpose of carrying a firearm". I find it hard to agree with this statement as it was written.

    Well, you can not like it or agree with it or whatever but it does not invalidate the statement. Truth cares not about your orientations. If a pistol is not carried for the purpose of perhaps one day, killing a bad guy that is about to kill you or another, then leave it at home.

    I carried a Glock 19 as my duty weapon for over 15 years here in Florida and yes, I had what I consider good training and I had to qualify every year. I also had K-9 training and always had my dog in my patrol vehicle almost always. I also consider myself very lucky to never having to use my weapon in a deadly situation.

    There is a great deal of information in the foregoing. I think few share your perspectives. I for one consider myself blessed to have been able to save the lives that i did, by the things that I did, for which many of my comrades were ill-prepared. Fond - and lucky - memories...but then it is based on self image...

    I retired in 2009 but I still and will always carry a weapon for self defense. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around that statement because during all these years, I never once thought of killing a bad guy is the purpose of carrying a firearm!

    Then you can continue to lie to yourself about why you carry it. Just How The F*ck do you think you "defend yourself" with it then...waving it about and yelling at them and hoping they run away?
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    5,509
    A gun is for killing. That is what it is FOR.

    It is a tool. Either we are justified in using it for good, or we are not. Package it however you want, using violence to defend yourself is VIOLENCE.

    The antelope will tell the tale when it’s appropriate, but in the moment of need the tiger kills.

    Every time we pick up a gun and aim it, whether dry or live fire...we are training to kill. And we know that when we kill, we are justified. If you don’t know that...there is some work to be done.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

    Upcoming classes:

    Advanced Close Range Gunfighting - Nov 2-3 Mapleton, OR

  6. #46
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,772
    Go, stalk the red deer o'er the heather, Ride, follow the fox if you can! But, for pleasure and profit together, Allow me the hunting of Man.

    Kipling wrote this and it is a salient truth of life. Those who have done so will attest.

    For those who read, I suggest a perusal of the "Fear Of Killing" articles and the "Self Image" articles. And if you still think a pistol is for something else and so forth, please look up my recently posted youtube clip of Al Pacino in the movie Heat discussing the gratuitous waste of precious time.

    WT, it seems, is really not for everyone. Whodathunk?
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    301
    SK2344 wrote:

    "Killing a bad guy is the purpose of carrying a firearm". I find it hard to agree with this statement as it was written.
    Well then, can you tell me precisely what the purpose of carrying a firearm is? Yeah, yeah, I get it. I get the optics and legalities of the whole "shooting to stop" a threat. As I explain to others, in a gunfight I have one priority over all others - not getting shot by the bad guy. Period. Everything else is trumped by this. So whatever it takes to "stop the threat" is what I do. I know this is going to send some over the edge with splitting hairs and arguing semantics, but fuck it. I don't care about killing the bad guy. I can shoot out both his femoral arteries and watch him die as he bleeds out over the course of a couple of minutes. He WILL die before aid arrives, that's a fact. But that doesn't necessarily stop him from shooting me back. If I had a choice of what happens in the chaos of combat:

    1. My shot placement is off for some reason and I hit his shoulder causing him to drop his gun and writhe around in pain while waiting for the cops and ambulance, and he survives and I'm left unharmed...

    OR...

    2. I shoot him twice in the abdomen and thigh and he dies (eventually), but he gets a shot off because I didn't stop him, and I get hit...

    I'll hope for Scenario #1.

    Now, all that being said, I practice for head and face shots, and if that isn't practical, then multiple shots to the upper chest as close to the heart as possible. Because fuck him, that's why. I want to stop him from shooting me. And the deader I make him and the faster I make him dead, the better my chances of exiting the situation unharmed. So it's a word game to some extent, though a valid one. I want him to not be able to shoot me. Killing him is the best way to achieve that goal. So I carry a gun to kill those who would kill me or other innocents. If I wanted to do something other than kill him, I wouldn't carry a gun. I'd carry pepper spray or some sort of shit like that. Keep in mind that simply firing a gun in the general direction of another person, even without intent to hit him and regardless of whether he's hit, that's considered lethal force because shooting someone is intended to kill that person. Pepper spray is intended to incapacitate a person because it burns and it stings and it blinds and chokes you. Tasers are intended to incapacitate you because they lock up the muscles. Guns perforate and kill. That's the only reason to carry one. Why do you think we call those other options "less than lethal"?
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
    - Toshitsugo Takamatsu

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    371
    The OP article is short, but it references much longer studies on the material. Grossmans work is legit observation. I would suggest everyone read his books. What is the point of the word warrior if it is synonymous and interchangeable with all humans?
    A conclusion from Grossmans book is about 3 percent of a populace can kill. If 300 million Americans thats 3million possible killers. Look at the numbers for military in close combat roles, police, criminals in for attempted murder, homicide etc. the numbers get close.
    Other points from Grossmans books: Psychological distance and disgust are a big part of why a kid can step on a bug but they frequently dont murder thier sibling for something trivial.
    Other books on effects of human psychology is tribe by sebastian junger, a conclusion is peoplenwith values and comunity (like team guys) do not have negative consequences to killing.
    Another point brought up here and in grossmans books is a history of violence and propensity to kill humans. Anyway i mostly agree with the article.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,772
    When Al Gore presented his ridiculous climate change theory to the world he listed all sorts of studies which alone meant nothing but which when he combined them could refer to his theory. Then he said, "IF THESE STUDIES ARE TRUE"....then you would agree with him on global warming.

    I see Grossman's early books in the same way...IF HIS STUDIES ARE TRUE? That is a very faithful IF and I personally do not agree with his findings. Grossman's books are his opinion, not facts. Thus I disagree with his theory on killing.

    One thing of note is that all of his theories are just that as he has no personal knowledge in the area. Not that one needs such to be a student of violence, but I will bet you $10K that I can take all his listed studies and arrive at a completely opposed notion if that was my intent in the first place.

    We are killers and have always been killers. It is trained out of us so we can live in society. Remove that civilization and societal enforcement and watch what happens.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,182
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    We are killers and have always been killers. It is trained out of us so we can live in society. Remove that civilization and societal enforcement and watch what happens.
    And there it is.

    It's liberating on several levels.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "Can I move?...I'm better when I move."

    1, 1, 10. And a wakeup.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •