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  1. #1
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    Default CROWDED TOOLBOXES

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    We hear it from time to time. It is a mistake, but like lies, mistakes repeated over and over, and never corrected, tend to become the perception of correctness. The issue is the idea that all training is good. It is not. Not all training is good...and not all trainers provide valuable training. The same can be said for tactics and methods of operating the weapon. "Its just another tool for the box". No...it is mental garbage that you have just injected into you mind like a junkie injects heroin. Once that trash is in the mind, it won't leave. And anything you program vis-a-vis repetition, has been installed in your program.

    So no...all training is not good. Only good training is actually good. And what is that? It is what is actually useful and applicable to your daily operations. Doing a reload, for example, like the third man in a stack on a direct action team with endless support and endless supply may make the typical gun student's groin twitchy, but has absolutely zero bearing on how he should comport himself is he finds himself in a gunfight, or needs to conduct his own "direct action" against an active shooter. Program the habits of a well supported and supplied member of a team of ten...when you are not, and those habits will in fact return...and like it or not, they will cost you. All training is not good. Some training is entertainment. Some training is actually applicable. And some training is total bullshit. And you would be surprised how little of it, from the highly vetted, killed more people than texting while driving, fits in the "actually applicable" category.

    Neither is every tool valuable. Overload the "toolbox" with tools and all you will get is a mish-mash of non-cohesive skills that will do nothing but confuse you. How many methods of reloading do you need? Only one, not ten. Read Hick's law again to understand why. How many draws, how many reloads, how many malfunction clearances, how many ways to clear a room, shoot from cover, move to cover, and all the myriad of things discussed to the point of seriously considering narcotics abuse on the internet? Look at the first paragraph. Not all training is worthwhile. And not all techniques are worthwhile tools. The only tools to be kept are the ones from worthwhile training.
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    And the objective of all worthwhile training is to allow you to kill the bad guy, as you are and as you live your life everyday, without allowing him to kill you. It is as simple as that. When the moment of truth comes nobody will give a shit how many units your teacher was a member of, nor how many movies your techniques appeared in. The only thing that will matter is your bullets smashing into and tearing up the body of the enemy that was trying to kill you. Period.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #2
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    Sep 2009
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    7,843
    This is where looking cool and doing cool guy shit will get you killed. To me it’s as stupid as some of the female lumberjacks prancing around. It works for people that have never been in a fist fight or tried to kill someone before let alone never been in a gunfight.... Hey whatever sells you tube videos, right bro.... Even with my limited gunfighter encounters I have been in enough shit to know that keeping it simple is key, and timing. Just like you mentioned in the other. All of it’s timing, follow through. If it gets too complicated, it will be even worse when you get into the real environment....

  3. #3
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    Aug 2015
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    151
    Gabe,

    Spot on, I was going to put something up on this topic after reading the thread on the unfortunately named limited penetration (like the technique itself isn't bad enough).

    I've seen first hand how adding techniques, without any critical thought, just so you could have another tool led to a ridiculous mash up of incompatible crap. If you need to use the toolbox cliché, first ask yourself if you actually need a new skill. For example, if your shooting skills are up to par but you lack empty hand skills that would be a good addition to your 'toolbox'. If you have great marksmanship for a proactive shot, but can't get off the X, again, something worth adding to your repertoire.

    Any other approach takes us back to the days of having five different methods for clearing specific malfunctions (I am not exaggerating)

    Jim Miller
    ISA 6:8

  4. #4
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    Mar 2011
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    It's about putting the right things in the toolbox.

    Admittedly this can be challenging to figure out if you don't already have experience. But that's why we offer classes and have this forum.

    A diverse skill set is important, but we don't need a thousand ways to do the same thing. In this sense, breadth is more important than depth. We need a few simple responses to a broad range of problems.

    Where we need depth is in adaptability. In the use and control of our body. The tiger doesn't need to go to the dojo to learn how to move. Humans apparently do need the dojo because based on what I see they have forgotten how to move.

    I don't think you need lots of techniques, but you do need to understand how your body works, and you need the understanding and capability to MAKE it work.

    And if you understand how to make your body work, you should have a pretty damn good understanding how to make other bodies not work.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

    Upcoming classes:

    Pistol Groundfighting, Kansas
    Pistol Groundfighting, Washington

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    578
    As a new automotive tech I was blessed to work under one the best techs in town for three and half years. One thing he told me I will never forget when it comes to tool purchases. He said "ask yourself first, is it a tool or a toy?" That has not only stuck with me professionally, but I've also applied it to many areas of my life.

    I swear, sometimes I feel Gabe not only speaks my language but is also speaking straight to me....

    Thank you. This is great and timely reminder.
    Be alert, stand firm in the faith, act like a man, be strong. Your every action must be done with love.

    “Adversity introduces a man to himself.”

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Yamamoto View Post
    It's about putting the right things in the toolbox.

    Admittedly this can be challenging to figure out if you don't already have experience. But that's why we offer classes and have this forum.
    And it comes down to this. You either believe us, or you think we are full of crap. Which then begs the question of "why are you here".
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  7. #7
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    Mar 2011
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    Western WA
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    The empty cup and all that.

    I am always a student, and I have a lot of cross training opportunities. Now, I have been doing this long enough that it’s pretty rare that I see something new. But when I am learning from someone else I try to do it their way. I may revert to what I was already doing after class (often the case), but I give everything a fair shot...maybe I will learn something better. It is my job, and my personal mission, to learn and pass on the best possible information and skills that I can.

    It feels worth it when people listen.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

    Upcoming classes:

    Pistol Groundfighting, Kansas
    Pistol Groundfighting, Washington

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    391
    What I struggle with understanding is how to know what training is worthwhile and what isn't. Obviously I'm not training with youtube gun-bunnies and 3-gunners, though. If the prerequisite for "worthwhile instructor" is that they've been in combat and won, even then there isn't even ground. Paraphrasing what Gabe said, training like an infantryman doesn't automatically give you on-his-own CCW reactive gunfighting skills. In fact, his Army training can handicap future training for his new context.

    I trained Tae-Kwon-Do from 6 to 12 years old. Many of the body mechanics and movements I learned from that early stay with me today, and not for the better. I definitely see the handicaps of a "sported" system impeding my footwork. High school football, while an experience I would never trade, has ingrained habits that show themselves in BJJ and get me choked.

    I train with Suarez because I believe in the system and perspective of the fight. Besides Gabe's resume of gunfights, his study fits my needs. Most other instructors shoe-horn their military training into what they tell me my needs are. This isn't just unhelpful, its harmful. I totally agree with what Gabe is saying here.

    But my constant existential crisis rears its ugly head again. I've studied fighting in various capacities since I was tying my own shoes. I can count the number of real fights I've been in on one hand. Never had to draw my weapon, though I've come very close a few times. How can someone like me with no combat experience fine-tune their BS meter and know what available tools to put in my toolbox? Karate, BJJ, gunsite, Suarez, Tai Chi...how does one develop their filter and take in the productive skills while rejecting the others?

    Maybe I just need to spend a few years in South Africa or Brazil and report back...

    EDIT: Dang, lots of conversation since I refreshed the page after posting this. Part of what I'm asking has already been answered, but the question remains
    Last edited by DeltaCadet84; 02-07-2019 at 06:52 PM.
    You shouldn't be thinking 'oh God, I'm in a gunfight', you should be saying 'THANK GOD I'M IN A GUNFIGHT!' " - Gabe Suarez

    "The man becomes the weapon, everything else is a tool" -Sonny P

  9. #9
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    Simply making the effort to separate the wheat from the chaff is it pretty good start.

    Start with principles. Universal principles are worth knowing. Tactics and techniques must be in accord with those principles

    The discussions on this forum flesh out those principles pretty well. Classes on individual subjects will of course be more in depth on particular subjects, but the class should explain not only the principles but the tactics, techniques and skills that follow those principles.

    It is then up to you to internalize those principles. New techniques that you learn should be evaluated based on their accordance with the principles.

    We cannot all “been there done that”. Not for everthing. We often have to rely on the experience of others.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

    Upcoming classes:

    Pistol Groundfighting, Kansas
    Pistol Groundfighting, Washington

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Western WA
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    Apropos of this thread...

    Tonight I went in early to train with the Jujutsu guys.

    Jujutsu is a grappling system. That means it's within arms reach, both people are usually gripping each other in some way, and it can be either standing or on the ground. And the emphasis is always on unbalancing the other guy in some way, performing some type of throw to ballistically introduce him to the ground, and a joint control when he hits the deck. This stuff is inherently more complicated than striking. Obviously I'm not opposed to this kind of training because I do it...but I also pass it through my sniff test.

    Essentially my sniff test is "will this work on me?" Perhaps that's a little unfair because I've seen a few things, but I figure if it will work on me it should work on most people (at least those not built like Eric Tull).

    For example...we worked on a few variations of hip throws. For those that don't know what it is, here's the first clip that comes up when I search for "ippon seoi nage" (they call it a shoulder throw, but the mechanics of your core are just like any other hip throw, so I classify it as a hip throw). The guy demonstrating has pretty solid mechanics and I have no criticism of his performance or presentation. Keep in mind that he's demonstrating this for Judo competition.



    The technique is mechanically sound. There is value in learning how to move like this, controlling your body as it moves through space, placing your feet, feeling and disrupting the other guys balance, and completing the mechanics of this throw.

    But is it tactically sound outside of the Judo ring?

    Look at this moment, and imagine this out on the sidewalk. What is White doing that might not be advisable? What is in Blue's favor at this moment? Even if White successfully throws Blue...might there be some things Blue can do on the way to that throw...and for that matter DURING the throw? (And by the way, if Blue know's something about falling he's not out of the picture yet.)
    Capture.JPG

    I am NOT saying that this throw won't work. I'm not saying it's not a viable technique in shitty circumstances, or that it's not something worthwhile to train and be familiar with. After all there are times we get forced into less than ideal circumstances and we may have to make choices that are less than ideal. I AM saying that this particular throw, done this particular way, is not as tactically sound as other choices that could be made.

    If you have a lot of time to train, by all means, there's value to being able to do it. More importantly there's value to recognizing when you're being set up for it and knowing how to deal with it. But...we have limited training time. I would not prioritize this one.

    That said, I don't care where you train, there's going to be things you learn that are not high priority. Even in my own dojo where I strive to make everything as high value as I can, there are times when we train lower priority stuff. That just happens. But that's ok.

    Don't think of it as another tool in your box. Analyze it and make a judgement whether or not it's useful to you. If it's not something you're going to do "on the street", well that's ok. You just did another movement exercise and learned something of limited value. Don't let it clutter your brain. Throw it away and don't cling to it. You still got to move around, you still got a work out, you still got to get in contact with another body and learned something about how people move, what they do, etc. Maybe mostly all you got out of it was "don't fucking do anything like that, ever".

    As long as the balance of good stuff outweighs the balance of bad stuff, it's not wasted time. I can't be there so you have to make your own call.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

    Upcoming classes:

    Pistol Groundfighting, Kansas
    Pistol Groundfighting, Washington

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