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  1. #11
    Maybe this is a case of not knowing what I dont know...

    During FoF ive done, if a small team is trying to make entry against a barricaded suspect that knows an entry is possible and the team has no element of surprise and no flash bang type devices, a dynamic flood into the room wasn't always the highest success tactic for us. In those cases "fighting from the door" worked better.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Yamamoto View Post
    Just because the Israeli's do it is no reason to follow suit.

    The bible is many things. But among others, it is a long history of "Look at what Israel has done. Don't do that."
    they must be doing at least a few things right,evidenced by the fact that they still exist.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warped Mindless View Post
    Maybe this is a case of not knowing what I dont know...

    During FoF ive done, if a small team is trying to make entry against a barricaded suspect that knows an entry is possible and the team has no element of surprise and no flash bang type devices, a dynamic flood into the room wasn't always the highest success tactic for us. In those cases "fighting from the door" worked better.
    That issue was brought up in Africa last time I was there. The Israelis have their finger prints all over places the Americans are afraid to go and this was no different. And one element of class had been so indoctrinated into IDF ways that they took exception and advised me that their way, the limited entry fight from the door method was superior.

    Being me, I said, "Show me"

    They gathered their team and I grabbed up two from the class and said...Ok...you know they are coming...when they open the door, shoot the living f*ck out of them. Then we sat back. As soon as the door opened, it was met with resistance from bad guys behind cover. Results...stalemate at best. AT BEST!

    So no...I do not see much if any value in it.

    Goal - kill the bad guys in the room.
    Tools - Limited

    There are far far better ways to skin that cat kids...than the Limited Door Fighting system.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by krav51 View Post
    they must be doing at least a few things right,evidenced by the fact that they still exist.
    They still exist because the USA supports them bro. All biblical issues aside, if the USA pulled support, their only recourse would be nuclear annihilation of the entire region.

    And because the ROE their military and police operate under allows a degree of aggression.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  5. #15
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    Toolboxes - guys put so much dogshit in their tool boxes that when they need a real useful tool they are so cluttered up with feces it takes forever to find it. GUARD YOUR TOOLBOXES AND KEEP SHIT OUT OF IT.

    I will add that the Israelis are great at looking at what others have done, rebranding and remaking it, and calling it an Israeli invention. If the IDF Contingent was still here I am certain I would be labelled a Nazi Anti-Semite for saying so. But the UZI was copied from the Czech SA VZ26, the Galil copied from the Finnish Valmet, the Jericho copied from the CZ-75, empty chamber draw-cock-and-fire was western military doctrine leading to and during WW2 (rebranded Applegate/Fairbairn), and the much promoted "Limited Entry - Stay Outside" stuff is old US WW2 doctrine.

    The US is the world's leader in gunfighting and CQB. Americans have killed far more people in civilian domestic self defense than the Israelis (feel free to bring up stats if you disagree). Contrary to popular fiction, Israelis don't walk around armed...like we do. Nor do they train to the collective levels of skill that US shooters...even the gamesmen...train to.

    Those are all facts.

    As far as the limited entry deal...all you need to do is set up a drill and test it. Unless your adversaries are sleeping or jacking off they will catch you at the door and hold you there. Oh...and walls are not bulletproof...I think somebody wrote an article about that once. And if your adversaries are sleeping or jacking off what on earth are you afraid of or waiting for, get in there and shoot them in the face.

    Want to know all the alternatives to this silly limited entry concept? Get that crowbar out of the garage and pry open your wallets. Enough free stuff. At least three of our staff have done this sh*t for reals and have the scalps. They run training on CQB all the time. Ask for a class and attend and you will know why we roll our eyes like Tony Stark when discussion like this come up.

    There is also a video on CQB right here -

    CQB - FIGHTING IN STRUCTURES - DVD
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    They still exist because the USA supports them bro. All biblical issues aside, if the USA pulled support, their only recourse would be nuclear annihilation of the entire region.

    And because the ROE their military and police operate under allows a degree of aggression.
    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by krav51 View Post
    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
    Perfect
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Yamamoto View Post
    Just because the Israeli's do it is no reason to follow suit.

    The bible is many things. But among others, it is a long history of "Look at what Israel has done. Don't do that."

    And what Israel didn't do, namely get those perverse child-burning pagans out of the Promised Land.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "Can I move?...I'm better when I move."

    1, 3, 07. And a wakeup.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOLF220 View Post
    If I ever come up with an invention related to guns or the gun industry, Im just going to market it as something the Israelis do or use, then I can retire.. Its unbelievable how many carry chamber empty with no other reasoning behind it other than the Israelis do it that way
    In my mind's eye, you're packing a suppressed Beretta .22.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "Can I move?...I'm better when I move."

    1, 3, 07. And a wakeup.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Flaherty View Post
    Hate it too much to describe. Have been shot through a wall, so much for protection. Makes little sense, But hey there is always temple index.
    No trainer likes to be reminded that two layers of sheetrock and paint held up by wooden sticks or stamped metal posts do not constitute effective cover.
    Search a few rental houses or apartments. Note how many holes in the walls done by fist, foot or head alone. If I had frags I would not employ them inside the average house or office building. Heck, I don't have flash bangs either.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "Can I move?...I'm better when I move."

    1, 3, 07. And a wakeup.

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