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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Phoenix, Arizona
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    9,225
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkface View Post
    Interesting. I was wondering if there was any context that would explain why they thought a bad idea was a good one. Guess its case of them being lucky and/or not knowing better. Thanks man.
    It was developed in Europe where brick and plaster/lathe construction is still common. Additionally, urban combat and CQB is the most time consuming and casualty high of any battle mission, a standard of 80% casualty rate in urban terrain is considered a win in military doctrine for reference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    LimPen has reared it’s ugly head in certain circles again in the fashion of, “Everything old is new again.”

    My opinion of it is poor. One of the aspects I don’t like is it seems to artificially slow down clearing a structure at a time when speed is one of your best options.
    I'm not a fan because it hinks up the flow. Blocking a hallway to take the time to nade and clear or just clear from the threshold of the door is slow and jerky.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,349
    Drifting some. Much of my sons time in USMC he was an 'assistant instructor' playing war games against officers. He relates that the officers were told to expect 80% casualties in building clearing and that their men know what they're doing so stay back and get out of the way.

  3. #33
    I've had the pleasure of working with the Israelis. Wonderful people and culture. Nobody markets better. However, they are not a leading military in terms of Tactics Techniques or Procedures.

    On casualties in MOUT operations, my idea of limited penetration is to confirm there are bad people in a building then call in indirect fire.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,337
    Quote Originally Posted by TwoBodyOneHead View Post
    However, they are not a leading military in terms of Tactics Techniques or Procedures.

    .
    Be careful brother...I said the same and the screams of "anti-semite" could be heard to Jerusalem.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    114
    Thanks for the insight guys! I really didn't intend to stir up a debate though I just had no experience with this and was briefly exposed to it by an outfit claiming to be cutting edge. I guess the only cutting edge part for them was that now they carry with a round in the chamber.

    Jorge

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Tx
    Posts
    324

    Default I L P Entries

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    That issue was brought up in Africa last time I was there. The Israelis have their finger prints all over places the Americans are afraid to go and this was no different. And one element of class had been so indoctrinated into IDF ways that they took exception and advised me that their way, the limited entry fight from the door method was superior.

    Being me, I said, "Show me"

    They gathered their team and I grabbed up two from the class and said...Ok...you know they are coming...when they open the door, shoot the living f*ck out of them. Then we sat back. As soon as the door opened, it was met with resistance from bad guys behind cover. Results...stalemate at best. AT BEST!

    So no...I do not see much if any value in it.

    Goal - kill the bad guys in the room.
    Tools - Limited

    There are far far better ways to skin that cat kids...than the Limited Door Fighting system.

    Did a similar drill during a "FOF Saturday Afternoon". Once as a good guy and once as a bad guy. As bad guys we got large pieces of card board and used them as COVER.Surprise ,surprise surprise.
    Many are able, few are willing .

    NV28

    RGF,PSP,ACRG x 2,CRG x 2
    Intro PS Basics,Def Knife
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    Suarez Pistol Gunfighting School 10/13-15/2017 Houston, Texas.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    260
    Is this video representative of the Israeli limited or partial penetration methods?



  8. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    9,225
    No, that's south African paired entry. Still not as effective and slower and more dangerous than dynamic entry
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,096
    The video I shared also shows SA paired entry, both in training and use.

    Looks like it might have been cutting edge in 1995.

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