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Thread: FEAR

  1. #41
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    I agree with the silliness of the video game blame thing as well. All books are opinions. While Dave has some good opinions that I agree with, I think his first book "On Killing" did more to confuse those who may be in a position to actually kill. Grossman incidentally has never been in combat or a gunfight and nothing he writes is first person.

    My original post and position stands.
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  2. #42
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    How is it that "...may have merit..." is even remotely taken as an endorsement of Grossman's theories? "May", the last time I looked in the dictionary infers a possibility and nothing more.

  3. #43
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    Human response--all of it--is on a Bell curve. Most of us, by definition, tend to the center of whatever curve we're talking about. Most of us think that we're normal, and therefore the idea that we (anyone!) could be influenced by a video game is crap, because we just aren't. You can't make the mistake of projecting your character from the center onto people on the fringes.

    Example: can I persuade anyone here to suicide? Even if I self-inflict? Of course not. But anyone can tell you about suicide clusters that come after one messed up kid does it. His school knows to watch for a string of copycats. Ditto the mass shooters that take inspiration from each other. WE won't do that shit, but the outliers will.

    So, no. You'll never go nuts and kill your coworkers after a rousing session of GTA. But some people on the wing of that particular curve may just need the nudge from killing games to combine with all the other stuff in their lives.

    This piece of Grossman's work has merit. It just has to be applied in context.
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  4. #44
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    Blaming video games is the same illusory correlation that gun grabbers use to blame guns for violence. If we ban guns... If we ban video games... Then the world will be a utopia...

    As for me looking at this from my only my perspective that would be inaccurate. I am active in a number of gaming and streaming communities, I moderate and admin more than one community on Twitch with hundreds of active members and thousands of lurking members and have known hundreds of gamers myself. People get excited over polls with a thousand people in it and take their results as gospel. Well I have sample sizes magnitudes greater than that lol.

    There are millions and millions of gamers in the world. There are bound to be at least a couple of bad people that have also played a game or two and then done bad things. Just like there are millions of responsible gun owners and gentlemen killers out there and tiny fraction of those that become active shooters.
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  5. #45
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    So you reject the notion that media can influence behavior at all? Madison Avenue says you’re wrong. Suicide clusters say you’re wrong. Copycat criminals, and the idiots that try things out after seeing it on the big screen...they disagree too.

    And I don’t recall advocating a ban on your pastime. But it’s extremely short sighted to write off what’s out there just because you aren’t one of the outliers. Especially when you’re essentially agreeing with what’s being said in your last paragraph.
    __________

    "To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle

  6. #46
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    Can video games shape values? Sure, I was at the advent of video games ( anyone remember pong?). Fast forward a few years and one of my buddies and I have transformed his bunk bed into a separated two screen section to play f-15 strike eagle.

    This was in the time of the red menace ( and the first red dawn movie). Yep my group had a plan around the high school..... it wasn’t to do harm to the students or teachers, it was to protect them. All plans were focusing on overcoming whatever threat might occur there ( this was about a decade pre Columbine ... my high school was in Colorado ) heck we even climbed the roof at night on the weekends and explored as much of the campus after hours as we could get access to.

    It was a time where knives/guns/camping and camaraderie was normal, whatever clique you belonged to.

    So can video games influence people, absolutely. But they will migrate to the games which feed something that was put in place by their parents/friends/society. I can get behind “soap” on COD or master chief in halo ( which I played with my son sooooo many times while he was growing up)

    We find the things in life that strengthen whatever values we hold, whether it’s service to others, service to ourselves, or service to God.

    It is a complex issue, but remember all things are just pieces of the whole, The pieces we pick determine what we will become .
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  7. #47
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    Indeed Gabe, this is Col. Grossman's theory (On Combat and On killing). The other is from Dr. Kevin Duton about psychopaths and Andy SAS Brave to zero.
    “No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I knew none, and therefore am no beast.” Richard III – William Shakespeare

  8. #48
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    How did this thread drift so far off topic as to be homosexual. Video games and movies? Next you'll say Elvis got girls pregnant through the TV on Lawrence Welk show
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  9. #49
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    At my age of 20, I felt what real fear meant with all included (slow motion seeing, auditory exclusion, extreme strenghth....). I was walking in the night through the garage area, when I was attacked by 10-15 scary dogs. As I saw them just in time, I was able to turn my back on garage to avoid being attacked from behind. I rotated my bag towards them and I withdrew slightly trying to get out of their area. Unfortunatelly I ve not seen an obstacle and I ve stumbled and fell on my side-back. I do not know how it happened, but suddenly I was standing again.... this time in attack, screaming, with a blunt object in my hand (taken from the ground or fence). I hit them on the left and right and then fled the pack of dogs priced tens of meters.
    Last edited by Alexandru; 12-10-2019 at 01:51 AM.
    “No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I knew none, and therefore am no beast.” Richard III – William Shakespeare

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