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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Frederick View Post
    Somebody school this dummy...
    If an PCC/SMG is being designed from the ground up, why not have the mags insert through the grip?
    Then it could use Glock mags without issue. And have a smaller footprint.
    Uzi did it, but most other SMG's put the magwell in front of the trigger, even with a clean slate design. What obvious reason am I missing here?
    The "Mag in the Grip" started with Cz and was adopted by Uzi and maybe a few others (Ingram M10, etc); but there is, or rather was an understanding that SMGs were full size fighting weapons and compactness wasn't the only mission requirement. Remember the Thompson weighed 10+ pounds and the Uzi isn't much lighter. The HK MP5 and the Sterling were perhaps the best of the Cold War SMGs, and they have pretty much faded as first choice combat guns. As missions changed in the post Cold War, Assault rifles replaced Battle rifles, and the role of SMGs diminished; its still there but much less so especially with the advent of short and shorter barreled Assault rifles. PDWs blurred the roles even more. The HK MP7 has a mag in the grip and the FN P90 has it on the top, those are the most prevalent PDWs (the only if we stick with the strict definition of specialized ammo capable of defeating body armor).

    So can a SMG be designed from the ground up with the mag in the grip, sure. Why Glock hasn't done it is a question for Glock; but I suspect its purely economics--because theres never been a call for it. Glock is less interested in civilian sales, the real money is in government sales, (neither is/was HK for that matter) so don't expect a Glock Carbine anytime soon.

    The use of Glock mags by other manufactures in new guns may also be because the Glock magazine is a proven and yes popular mag; not having to design a magazine is one step closer to making it to the market. One of the (many) reasons the Bren 10 failed was because of magazine production issues.

  2. #42
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    Oct 2010
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    Phoenix, Arizona
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Attachment 57342

    Not looking to derail, but I handled one of these today (not this gun), used, asking $899. with what looks like a Magpul fore end and two polymer (junk) mags. Lower is Colt, restricted LE marking and it looks like a true 9mm, not a conversion, or at least it's firmly fitted to the lower. Upper has the A1 rear sight.

    I know nothing of Colt 9mm ARs. If I'm insane for considering this, please intervene. If not, tell me what to look for, what to avoid, and whether the juice is worth the squeeze. (I already have a G17 PDW.)

    Mods, kick me into another thread as appropriate.
    No those are factory m4 guards without the heat shield. They made them bigger to remove the aluminum heat shields
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
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    #thinkinginviolence
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    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

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  3. #43
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    Oct 2010
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    Phoenix, Arizona
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Frederick View Post
    Somebody school this dummy...
    If an PCC/SMG is being designed from the ground up, why not have the mags insert through the grip?
    Then it could use Glock mags without issue. And have a smaller footprint.
    Uzi did it, but most other SMG's put the magwell in front of the trigger, even with a clean slate design. What obvious reason am I missing here?
    The MP7 does accept mags in the grip and its opperational.
    Last edited by Gabriel Suarez; 02-03-2019 at 08:32 PM. Reason: Edited for clarity
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  4. #44
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    Jul 2018
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    SE Louisiana
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    224
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    The MP7 does accept mags in the grip and its opperational. And its not a glock mag world so let go of that particular argument is a non starter. Do you have an argument or what
    I was merely looking for information regarding magwells in SMG's for my own education... If I was married to Glock Mags I would not have built this Scorpion EVO.
    All I want is for the Scorpion Pmags to start shipping.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    Beyond The Wall
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    44,901
    No...he does not Greg.

    John...nice Evo
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    The MP7 does accept mags in the grip and its opperational.
    Man, I sooooo wish they sold a semi auto sbr MP7 here in America. And while I'm wishing for unicorn tears, I'd like one in 9mm.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    421
    I’m going to design a pcc with a bumpfire arm brace/sling stock hybrid that also takes Glock magazines. Any interest?

  8. #48
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    May 2008
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    I talked to a MagPul rep today at the Harrisburg show. He had a EVO with the MagPul stock and MagPul mag on display---he says 2 months or less eta on the mags.....

  9. #49
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    Apr 2011
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    421
    Quote Originally Posted by EDELWEISS View Post
    I talked to a MagPul rep today at the Harrisburg show. He had a EVO with the MagPul stock and MagPul mag on display---he says 2 months or less eta on the mags.....
    That’s good to hear. I doubt they will do it but I’d like them to make a 20 rounder as well.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    That’s good to hear. I doubt they will do it but I’d like them to make a 20 rounder as well.
    We talked about that too, I got a "We'll seeeee"

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