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  1. #31
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    Beyond The Wall
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    44,770
    I would do some reading. It is all available online. Begin with something like T-Nation as it is focused on optimizing.

    Lifestyle changes? Not if you are over 50 and want to live in an industrialized modern society.

    My .02 is injections will work better than anything else.

    These will get you started







    Ignore the loudmouths and the hipster T videos. They are the bumpfire brigades of the gun world.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,159
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    I would do some reading. It is all available online. Begin with something like T-Nation as it is focused on optimizing.

    Ignore the loudmouths and the hipster T videos. They are the bumpfire brigades of the gun world.
    Got it. I didn't select any course of action today because I want to educate myself first.

    I'm way under 50 - I'm only 31. But if what the doc said is correct, and lifestyle changes aren't going to get my T levels to where they should be, I'm going to be getting shots pretty soon.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,770
    Unless you are obese, sedentary, smoking alcoholic, fed on McDonald's, lifestyle changes won't do much. In my studies it is basically a result of life in an industrialized world. Unless you grow all your own chow on pristine untouched land and eat game meat that has not been tainted by modern industry...well, you get the idea. I am no expert but I am great at researching.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    694
    Like Gabe said, injections are the way to go.

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  5. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by chipw View Post
    True to a point but there were some bike racers who got their hematocrits so high via EPO that they died in their sleep when their heart rate dropped to low to pump the blood. They most likely had Hct's around 60 though. Your probably not going to get much over 50 or 51 using T alone.

    Most of the research in these deaths and those of other extreme endurance athletes have resulted in arrhythmias from cardiomyopathies or premature atherosclerosis leading to plaque rupture and occlusion. As far as I know they have never been able to support the EPO theory.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    SE New Mexico
    Posts
    1,185
    Converted from the pellets to the injections a month or so ago. Have been doing the SubQ but have been getting a localizes reaction of swelling, redness and itching that lasts about 4 days. It is pretty obviously a local histamine etc release and steroid cream helps. I have no issues with intramuscular. Any one else have this happen?
    “Every day the same thing...variety”

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by apamburn View Post

    I'm way under 50 - I'm only 31. But if what the doc said is correct, and lifestyle changes aren't going to get my T levels to where they should be, I'm going to be getting shots pretty soon.
    At 31 y/o your biggest concern moving forward is the potential loss of future fertility. Concurrent use of HCG and or Clomid can prevent testicular atrophy and assist in restarting sperm output in the event you wish to reproduce.

    Some may think it academic but I would want to know FSH/LH values that can aid in determining if it stems for poor testicular output or a pituitary issue. If FSH/LH are low (secondary hypogonadism) and you have ever experienced traumatic brain injury you may also suffer from decreased HgH. This is not uncommon for those returning from war zones with TBI.

    Go for it! Go SQ every 4 days for little to no discomfort. Might change your life!

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by AFSOCCRNA View Post
    Converted from the pellets to the injections a month or so ago. Have been doing the SubQ but have been getting a localizes reaction of swelling, redness and itching that lasts about 4 days. It is pretty obviously a local histamine etc release and steroid cream helps. I have no issues with intramuscular. Any one else have this happen?
    Not uncommon. Make sure you inject deeply enough. Half-inch needle 90° to the surface. Push hard enough to have the needle hub dimpling the skin. If your are using the abdomen, avoid the area around your belly button. It’s most likely the cottonseed oil carrier or the benzoyl alcohol preservative. After you inject, delay to a count of 10 before withdrawing the needle to allow pressure to equalize in the tissue. It’s less likely to follow the needle to the surface.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    783
    Are you guys injecting sq with test?? I used weightlifting years ago and injected intramuscular and through a doc intramuscular but never sq unless it was hgh.....am I missing something? Also, when you say pellets, what are you referring to? Sorry for the stupid questions. I’m off to research some more because there is obviously some stuff I need to know! Thanks for all the responses guys!


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  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    694
    Quote Originally Posted by Zzooomm View Post
    Most of the research in these deaths and those of other extreme endurance athletes have resulted in arrhythmias from cardiomyopathies or premature atherosclerosis leading to plaque rupture and occlusion. As far as I know they have never been able to support the EPO theory.
    Maybe, but its weird that those racers started dying in their sleep shortly after EPO hit the scene and stopped dying when the 50% hematocrit "health check" was put into place. There are stories from those days of them setting alarm clocks to wake up and move around to get the heart pumping. They were scared of something.
    I read some of the same posts you probably did with someone making your argument and quoting a study that narrowed the suspicious deaths from 18 down to like 2. He used examples like "this guy wouldn't of been doping because he was an amateur" or "this guy was a young 23 year old cycle cross racer, he wouldn't of doped ".
    I was a cat3 roadie when the first "low T" commercials starting airing during Fox News breaks. Almost over night the masters 40+ group went from pot bellied guys out for a little faster than normal group ride, to a bunch of shredded beasts with enough disposable time to train like pro's and enough disposable income to afford the gear, and not just the bikes they were riding, if you know what i mean.
    My point is, don't underestimate bragging rights as a reason to dope. Amateurs dope as much as the pro's.
    And the 23 year old mentioned is the perfect candidate, he's trying to make the big leagues. Of course he was doping. I didn't follow the guys logic, is what I'm saying. Id be cautious of a 60% hematocrit.
    But for TRT, its not going to get that high anyway. So for our purposes here, all good.

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