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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    As you roll up you know:

    Some shit is happening at the address you were given...maybe
    You might have to kill somebody once you get there...maybe
    Fixed it for you. And that's as good as it gets.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "Can I move?...I'm better when I move."

    1, 10, 11. And a wakeup.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    Made it to Free America
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    13,230
    The problem is, dispatch is obligated to put out all information. So if caller #1 says the shooter is a White wearing jeans and a red shirt, youre looking for that guy. If caller #2 says its a light skinned guy wearing dark pants and a orange shirt, youre looking for that guy. If caller #3 says its blue pants and a Tee shirt, youre looking for another guy. In fact youre looking for the same guy and confusing info has been drummed into your brain for 5 minutes. Ultimately YOU have to decide when YOU get there. In the past I debated turning OFF the radio after the first call; but I knew Id be held accountable if caller #69 says that he is also wearing blue pants and a red shirt with orange stripes and he has huddled in a corner to protect a couple customers with his handgun.....
    Then lets factor in the customers fleeing the store as you arrive, what are they wearing> what are they carrying>are they armed?

    And now calls are coming into dispatch via TEXTs, and the various social medias. Plus lets not forget calls come in by non English speakers, that has to be translated and translated CORRECTLY. I worked in a area where there were multiple dialects of Spanish and even more "Russians" that spoke languages other that Russian. About 15 years ago Baltimore City PD went to Puerto Rico to recruit Spanish speaking officers, only to find out that they didn't speak the "same" Spanish as the illegal immigrants in the City. If that wasn't bad enough many of the PR officers reverted to Spanish under stress, so non PR officers were listening to Charlie Brown's teacher.

    In the end YOU are own your OWN. Fall back on your training. What did you know *REALLY KNOW. When did you know it *REALLY KNOW IT. Then what did you DO. Outside knowledge does matter. Just because your department or your buddies don't train outside the yearly qualifications, doesn't mean all the classes YOU took (on your own pocket), don't matter>THEY DO. Think about the Constantinople Airport incident (where the officer shot the gunman then ran forward to cuff him and the gunman detonated his bomb vest killing both of them)>that knowledge makes head shots and "anchoring" shots a necessary tactic.

    Make the best decision you can.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Posts
    260
    Excellent discussion. I'm dispatching tonight, and when the troops came in for coffee at 0300 I had them read the original article and then the following discussion.

    The dispatcher isn't there. They are (hopefully) accurately relating information given to them by a third party, who may or may not be honest or correct in the information they are providing. All you REALLY know is that something unusual is going on at a particular location, and you better drive over there and figure it out your own self.
    "We should always try to do the right thing and the moral thing and the legal thing, but first we should do the SMART thing."
    --John S. Farnam
    Defense Training International

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    2,451
    Elements noted here resulted in a 26 mile code run for me Saturday. What was reported as a priority burglary--suspect still onsite, happening now--put me enroute from where I was training to back members of my crew who were much closer.
    This occurred at the height of midday weekend traffic. It would have been instructive to have a heart rate monitor synched with a dash cam for this one.
    You guessed it--no crime at all, just some civil nonsense--but you don't know that going in, and you play the cards you're dealt.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "Can I move?...I'm better when I move."

    1, 10, 11. And a wakeup.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    10,626
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Elements noted here resulted in a 26 mile code run for me Saturday. What was reported as a priority burglary--suspect still onsite, happening now--put me enroute from where I was training to back members of my crew who were much closer.
    This occurred at the height of midday weekend traffic. It would have been instructive to have a heart rate monitor synched with a dash cam for this one.
    You guessed it--no crime at all, just some civil nonsense--but you don't know that going in, and you play the cards you're dealt.
    Wear a fit bit.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    2,451
    Good idea. I could plot that against known locations enr.

    But my agency won't have dash cams, if ever, until long after I go 10-10 for the last time.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "Can I move?...I'm better when I move."

    1, 10, 11. And a wakeup.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    10,626
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Good idea. I could plot that against known locations enr.

    But my agency won't have dash cams, if ever, until long after I go 10-10 for the last time.
    Not to derail the thread but it would be an interesting study to compare HR to incidents and calls and graph the return to normal after the call. I believe that the military has done these studies and found that those in direct action groups tend to return to normal much faster after incident and tended not to dip below normal after the adrenaline wore off.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
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    45,099
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff22 View Post
    Excellent discussion. I'm dispatching tonight, and when the troops came in for coffee at 0300 I had them read the original article and then the following discussion.

    The dispatcher isn't there. They are (hopefully) accurately relating information given to them by a third party, who may or may not be honest or correct in the information they are providing. All you REALLY know is that something unusual is going on at a particular location, and you better drive over there and figure it out your own self.
    Again...in the dark ages...the dispatchers on the radio were always the call takers. And they were not newbies during the busy watches. And if a newbie took a hot call, they passed it off immediately to a proven hand. These guys had experience in talking to people and were streetwise. They could tell BS from reality and often interjected their thoughts. Many times it was a simple call that sounded hinky and we averted driving into an ambush...or a hot call that sounded like BS. Unfortunately, the move has been to eliminate personal perspectives and opinions as much as possible and handle everything in a robocopish cookie-cutter format for many agencies.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  9. #19
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    45,099
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    Not to derail the thread but it would be an interesting study to compare HR to incidents and calls and graph the return to normal after the call. I believe that the military has done these studies and found that those in direct action groups tend to return to normal much faster after incident and tended not to dip below normal after the adrenaline wore off.
    A ten hour watch had likely ten or so dramatic spikes in HR and BP. The guys that made it through w/o deliterious effects were the ones who were physically fit, did not drink to excess or abuse food. Sadly, that was not everyone.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Third Coast
    Posts
    4,200
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    Again...in the dark ages...the dispatchers on the radio were always the call takers. And they were not newbies during the busy watches. And if a newbie took a hot call, they passed it off immediately to a proven hand. These guys had experience in talking to people and were streetwise. They could tell BS from reality and often interjected their thoughts. Many times it was a simple call that sounded hinky and we averted driving into an ambush...or a hot call that sounded like BS. Unfortunately, the move has been to eliminate personal perspectives and opinions as much as possible and handle everything in a robocopish cookie-cutter format for many agencies.
    When one of my officers called out that he had been shot, the dispatcher manning the console vapor locked and pushed away from the console (confirmed by the other dispatchers present) thankfully a veteran dispatcher took over, and between the dispatcher and I (driving like hell to his location because he was still taking fire) were able to talk him through until my arrival. He reported that he had been shot with a rifle, so I was going to extract him assuming that his vest was defeated and would need serious medical attention whether he knew it or not. I got him out, the badguy self deselected, and he is the only officer that could file a semi-legitimate sexual harassment claim against me, cause as soon as I had him in a safe location I cut his shirt off, breached his vest and tried to stick my finger in the hole while we got our kit together.

    Upside was the bullet caught the edge of the vest, better upshot was that the rifle turned out to be .22 lr and the edge stopped the round, while pushing about 1/2 inch of material into the deformation wound. So yep, I not only copped a feel, I felt a cop ;)

    Ultimately, that original dispatcher subsequently left the job.... and both that cop and I are still on the job
    NEVER CONFUSE GETTING LUCKY WITH GOOD TACTICS (unless you are at the bar)

    I'm not in the business of Losing

    A stab to the taint beats most of the mystical bullshit, most of the time

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