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  1. #41
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    Aug 2009
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    1.5X bodyweight bench, 2Xbw squat, 2.5Xbw deadlift is what I consider baseline.

  2. #42
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    Apr 2005
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    NJ
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    One of the things I see as missing from the discussion on "strong" is the mental aspect of being strong. I firmly believe that the mental component is at least as important as the physical and inseparable. We have all heard the stories of the frail person lifting a car off a loved one. This does happen. So how to incorporate that component is interesting. It is certainly visible in extreme athletic events where the athlete goes way beyond what everyone thought was possible. In the world of athletics Eddie Hall's, 500kg deadlift, breaking the 4 minute mile are all example of the mental component. An example that is relevant to this forum is what the members of Operation Red Wings went through. The SEALS seem to be very good at either developing or bringing out that never give up and win at any cost mentality that I think is a major component of "strong" .

  3. #43
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    Oct 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by mross View Post
    One of the things I see as missing from the discussion on "strong" is the mental aspect of being strong. I firmly believe that the mental component is at least as important as the physical and inseparable. We have all heard the stories of the frail person lifting a car off a loved one. This does happen. So how to incorporate that component is interesting. It is certainly visible in extreme athletic events where the athlete goes way beyond what everyone thought was possible. In the world of athletics Eddie Hall's, 500kg deadlift, breaking the 4 minute mile are all example of the mental component. An example that is relevant to this forum is what the members of Operation Red Wings went through. The SEALS seem to be very good at either developing or bringing out that never give up and win at any cost mentality that I think is a major component of "strong" .
    They mostly wash out of the pipeline if they don't already have it, same can be said of any SOF. You either have the intestinal/testicular fortitude or you do not, and you DOR ringing that bell like you're wearing a Santa hat with a red bucket.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  4. #44
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    Jun 2007
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    Washington State
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    1,602

    Default What is "Strong"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    I will add that muscle mass is as important as strength alone. An 18 inch arm is better than a 15 inch arm that is marginally stronger.

    Why? Because there are lots of really fat strong guys. I have studies Ripptoe but at comparable age I will say I am likely more muscular although he is far stronger. So ratio of muscle to fat is more important than pure strength.

    Muscle mass raises your metabolic rate and as you age, the more muscle you start with the better to avoid and evade sarcopenia.

    And bodyweight exercises wont do it, nor will excessive cardio.
    Speaking from the 7th decade, pay close attention to what Gabe is saying. Maintaining that mass you have at 45 should be a top priority, no matter how you accomplish it.

    Iím still lifting (Xfit program) and training karate w Brent, but itís a fight to keep or increase that mass. My goals are similar to Gabe suggestions ; Sq 1.5, Dl 2.0, Bp 1.0.

    Currently 1.0, 1.3, 0.8

    Working up a T supplement program w Functional med doc.

    Blatant promo: Add to your program whatever promotes better movement, flexibility, and balance. The kata-like movement drills Gabe and Brent are developing for SI training will give you a great deal of help and challenge (Changing Levels-awesome!)in this area.

    START!!
    Last edited by Ted Demosthenes; 08-07-2019 at 11:38 PM.
    Ted Demosthenes
    Suarez International Staff Instructor


    From Murphy's Laws of Combat: "Incoming has the right-of-way" (so, GTFOTX!!)


  5. #45
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    Beyond The Wall
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    44,906
    Mental toughness comes from enduring hardship, danger, and pain. Its expensive and its hard. You earn it. There is no egalitarian way to pass it on. Want mental toughness...its gonna fucking hurt.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #46
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    Apr 2005
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    NJ
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    110
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    They mostly wash out of the pipeline if they don't already have it, same can be said of any SOF. You either have the intestinal/testicular fortitude or you do not, and you DOR ringing that bell like you're wearing a Santa hat with a red bucket.
    That is not the current state of thinking. The reason the SEALs were referenced is they have a facility called the "Mind Gym" which was put together to help reduce the wash out rate of new recruits. The book "Stealing Fire" has a section on it that elaborates further. If they thought that you either had it or did not they would not be wasting time and resources to develop something that can't be developed. Which is what I was getting at. The body of evidence also supports the concept of developing mental strength. The greatest Generation were ordinary men who where put in a situation to do extra-ordinary thinks. If it was a binary have/have not then they would not have prevailed in WWII. Gabe stated: "Mental toughness comes from enduring hardship, danger, and pain. Its expensive and its hard. You earn it. There is no egalitarian way to pass it on. Want mental toughness...its gonna fucking hurt." I agree whole hearty, is that not building the mental component into the concept of being strong? As to the rest of your statement. I have no idea what that even means.

  7. #47
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    Oct 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by mross View Post
    That is not the current state of thinking. The reason the SEALs were referenced is they have a facility called the "Mind Gym" which was put together to help reduce the wash out rate of new recruits. The book "Stealing Fire" has a section on it that elaborates further. If they thought that you either had it or did not they would not be wasting time and resources to develop something that can't be developed.

    As to the rest of your statement. I have no idea what that even means.
    Sorry but the above is not a correct statement. There is not a "Mental Gym" in any special operations selections class/process, it's a pass/quit exercise and everything's a test. There may be some instruction after that as you referenced, but in initial selection all non-hackers.

    [QUOTE][you DOR ringing that bell like you're wearing a Santa hat with a red bucket./QUOTE]
    DOR means Dropped On Request, or you quit. In BUDS they have a brass bell they ring to signify their desire to quit so everyone can see and hear that they are quitting.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  8. #48
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,906
    What Greg mentioned is true. We have a number of NSW guus on board but few ever post. The most prolific you will recall as Saladin (aka Billy Stojak). Selection is intended to weed out the weak and mentally-emotionally unstable. They dont want to keep you...they want to weed you out before spending a ton of money on you.

    Once selection is passed, the mind gym stuff comes in. But you either bring it...or, go home. According to my understanding.

    And I do think mental strength...as well as spiritual strength (not a religious thong BTW) can be developed. Once you have it, it can be made better and refined...but its not going to be taught in a class, or an academy. It is learned in life and the lessons suck ass.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Washington State
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    1,602
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post

    And I do think mental strength...as well as spiritual strength (not a religious thing BTW) can be developed. Once you have it, it can be made better and refined...but its not going to be taught in a class, or an academy. It is learned in life and the lessons suck ass.
    THIS^^^^

    It may not be recognized for what it is as a teenager. Those who persist and persevere will apply it and develop it as Gabeís stated above, even if they havenít taken the time to identify it.
    Ted Demosthenes
    Suarez International Staff Instructor


    From Murphy's Laws of Combat: "Incoming has the right-of-way" (so, GTFOTX!!)


  10. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    506
    One of the most important keys to mental toughness that people with physical challenges and people that had to deal with a tragedy has that they are forced to do a lot of introspection.

    I believe that Martial Training is the one tool that can come close to real life to force a person to do a lot of introspection as well because we all have "challenges" when we start our Martial Journey. For example you can be the most gifted person but lack the self discipline to show up to training/training enough because everything comes easily to you.

    Or even being shy because it can hold you back to step up in class and take full advantage of the training being offered.

    If you then want to move to the next level you would have to do some introspection and simply training to exhaustion will not be enough. The role of hard physical training at this point is to expose these individual challenges and cannot be used to address each person`s challenges individually.

    To address your challenge you have to judge your own performance physically, mentally and emotionally. For example why did I not share with the group how I train at home. Maybe I believe that what I do has no value.

    Or why do I led myself down not practicing my drills enough. Maybe I believe deep down that it is all a big waste of time.

    I am not saying that our training experiences can even come close to a person`s experience who has survived multiple lung transplants and what that experience has done to shape her mentally.

    But I do believe that we can use our training to improve our mental toughness somewhat by forcing ourselves to ask the hard questions, addressing our weaknesses and in the process putting ourselves through a crucible.

    USSU!
    Elfie

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