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  1. #1
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    Default Shoot the active shooter...or lock the door!

    Ok - not sure if this is the best sub-forum location for this topic, so Gabe, feel free to move it anywhere it belongs.

    It's getting on my nerves, the trend of people who know nothing about anything being the ones to write the rules in a company. As I've mentioned before, I work an armed security job at a campus. Today a debate erupted over proper procedures in the case of an active shooter. I've made myself crystal clear about what happens when I'm there and there's a terrorist or an active shooter - everyone better get the hell out of my way because my only concern is locating and killing the bad guy right there on the spot.

    Our post orders dictate all sorts of silly shit such as locking the front door as our first action. One of the guards from the other company (a federal security company) agrees with the post orders. His argument? A second shooter could possibly come in through the front door.

    I'm trying to explain to him that I don't give a flying fuck about locking the front door for several damned good reasons:

    1. I'd be turning my back to where the shooter would almost certainly be - in the library or the cafeteria, or wandering through the hallways. I don't want to get shot in the back by the shooter - I want to shoot the shooter in the face. 3 or 4 times as needed.
    2. I'd be blocking the door while trying to lock it while people are trying to run outside and escape. Nothing like blocking escapees!
    3. I'd be trying to fuck around with finding the one key that locks the front door on a keyring that holds 21 almost identical keys, and then be trying to insert the awkward, worn out key into a tiny keyhole right after my heart rate jumped from 60 to 210 in a second or two. Yeah, that's brilliant. I guess in their world, fine motor skills don't deteriorate under stress. I'd assume this would be akin to trying to thread a needle while avoiding an attack by a mountain lion.
    4. Every damned second I spend fucking around trying to locate a key and lock a door to keep out a non-existent second active shooter, another innocent person is being murdered!

    I don't have time to deal with keys and doors. The faster I take out the shooter, the faster the killing stops and the fewer people die. For some reason, these people insist we need to worry about a non-existent second active shooter who is standing outside biding his time waiting to attack. When has that ever happened in all these incidents? They come in together, in the rare circumstances where there are multiple shooters. One doesn't stand outside biding his time.

    The argument ended with me asking one of the other guards (who insists the post orders are the proper approach ) - what would he want me to do if his mother was in the cafeteria when the shooting started happening? Go kill the shooter or go lock the door? Didn't get an answer. My final argument - I'm going immediately to take out the shooter. If anyone - and I mean anyone - is stupid enough after the incident to tell me "You didn't follow the post orders and didn't lock the door first" I am knocking them the fuck out without saying the word. I'll do the time for the satisfaction. Just unreal.
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
    - Toshitsugo Takamatsu

  2. #2
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    Why argue? Why be drawn into discussions with people who are either terminally stupid or attempting to spin you up?

    Remain calm, do what needs to be done when the need arises, and deal with the aftermath.

    Let those who are disinclined to fight lock the doors. And, if they survive, unlock them when my brethren and I appear, saving us the trouble of breaching.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "Can I move?...I'm better when I move."

    1, 11, 15. And a wakeup.

  3. #3
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    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    Why argue? Why be drawn into discussions with people who are either terminally stupid or attempting to spin you up?

    Remain calm, do what needs to be done when the need arises, and deal with the aftermath.
    I can't say it better than that. There is a time and place to present an argument over the appropriate response. But you may never find yourself there. In your position, you are likely to just be told what to do; not asked what you think is best. When that happens, smile and nod; say that you understand. If trouble actually arises, throw that crap out the window and do what needs to be done. Afterwards, don't talk too much. If it becomes clear that you violated protocol but saved lives, they probably won't call you to task over that. If they do, just stay relatively mum.

    My experience has been that it's not the shooting that gets people in trouble; it's the talking afterward that does. And that rule applies with equal force to both cops and criminals.
    Virtute et Armis

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by LawDog View Post
    My experience has been that it's not the shooting that gets people in trouble; it's the unartful and inarticulate talking afterward that does. And that rule applies with equal force to both cops and criminals.
    Fixed it. To preclude the devolution into the "say nothing and wait for your lawyer" mind set again.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post

    What Gabe and the penguin said.....look dumb and happy and don't draw attention.

    It is rarely in your best interest in these settings to come across as overly (or overtly) competent. No point in alerting anyone to the fact that you are anything other than just like everyone else.

    To quote Jack Rackham from Black Sails...."To be underestimated is an incredible gift"......

    So keep training keep quite and keep ready. And if that day comes then don't worry about what might happen just focus on what must be done.
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor
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    TRAIN with me....https://suarezinternational.com/sear...h_query=harris

    Fundamentalist Christian Man at Arms

    AKA - CRUEL HAND LUKE

    Joel 3:10 - Beat your plowshares into swords , and your pruning hooks into spears; train even your weaklings to be warriors.

    Through HIS power I can walk on water..IF I just have the faith and courage to get out of the boat.

    A good man who's done a couple of bad things along the way....

  7. #7
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    Sep 2016
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    The only reason I even bother to argue with some of these people is that I'm hoping to reach a few who might come to understand reality. The rest of them can cower and worry about doors while the rest of us go take out the shooter. At least two of the other guards in my company get it and understand the proper response after I discussed it with them. Still, it never ceases to amaze me how man people indulge in and cling to their delusions no matter what evidence to the contrary is shown to them. It's a sad thing to see as well because it means that when I'm not here and there's an active shooter incident, a lot more people are going to die that might otherwise because people are listening to other stupid people who know nothing about reality and therefor follow stupid orders as told.

    Maybe if we offered free testosterone shots?

    Wanna hear the crazy thing? The front door is a double door, like a vestibule. The inside door requires a properly coded keycard to gain access. So a second shooter would have to shoot out the glass to get in. Which means locking the outside door offers no protection outside of at best gaining an extra second or two of time before the mythical 2nd shooters gets in.

    Bottom line, I know what I'm doing if the shit hits the fan. And screwing around with keys and doors doesn't appear anywhere in my personal response plan, that's for sure.
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
    - Toshitsugo Takamatsu

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1976 View Post
    The only reason I even bother to argue with some of these people is that I'm hoping to reach a few who might come to understand reality.
    To hell with them...its not like any of this is a big secret.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  9. #9
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    Having spent 29 years in the DOE/NRC realm I know all about stupid rules and procedures about everything and anything. We had our own plans as to how we would handle certain things and hopefully have it done before the big mucklymucks showed up. What we also did is keep out mouths shut about it because willful violation of rules and procedures was a firing offense even saying you would not. SO loose lips sink ships. Do what you have to do when you have to do it, then handle it afterwards
    I rather you hated me for who I am than love me for who I ain't!
    This Ain't the Movies, and You Ain't John Wayne!

    Sometimes it is entirely appropriate to kill a fly with a 12 pound sledgehammer!
    TRAIN HARD= SOONER OR LATER YOU"LL NEED IT!

  10. #10
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    Sep 2016
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    That's the other disturbing thing, Gabe. It's certainly not a secret. And yet in the 21st century age of communication and unprecedented access to both info and training, so many people are still willfully ignorant. Boggles the mind.
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
    - Toshitsugo Takamatsu

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